Fortunately, our societal mores are loosening enough that forced seduction or rape is no longer de rigeur in romance novels. Because while I like me a good consenual bondage scene (also “forced” seduction to some degree), I do NOT like for people to think rape has anything to do with sex. It’s about power.
I do think there is a distinction between rape and forced seduction. So for me, the forced seduction is about teaching a woman about her power. The rape is teaching her she has no power.

An explanation that resonated the most with me on the “rape fantasy” is that women are still punished for enjoying sex and men are rewarded. Therefore, if the woman has orgasmic screaming sex, it must have no consequences in order to be enjoyable. No one can hold it up the next day and put her at fault, or it will ruin the mood. Rape and forced seduction removes the choice and therefore the condemdation from choosing to enjoy sex. If you couldn’t help it, you can’t be accountable, right? So the best way to get great sex you don’t have to apologize for is for your lover to force it on you. Having the terminology to distinguish the two is key because I’ve always shuddered at the idea of a rape fantasy, but I could get behind a “forced seduction” that winds up being empowering.

I’m not saying that this is fair, but it is real. Barbara Kingsolver’s “Animal Dreams” has a scene where a girl says no, the teacher stops the boy, and both the boy AND girl are surprised. Because we are taught that “no” means, “convince me”. Less so today, but the lesson needs to be learned by both sides that “no” means “no”. I really dislike reading scenes where the woman says no for this reason and because I honestly don’t know if she means “no” or “convince me”.

Also this week, I am reading “Bonk, the curious coupling of science and sex”. We know curiously little about something so fundamental scientifically because sex research ruins careers, even now. How ridiculous that people are still afraid of masturbation even? (it would help if it were called something pleasant, I think. Any ideas?)

Gah. It’s late, I’m rambling, and I throw books at the wall after a rape. But where I draw that line may be different from where you draw that line. Keep thinking up new terminology!

That said, the rape fantasy is the number one sexual fantasy of women according to some research I did on the psychology of sexual fantasy. HOWEVER, in the fantasy women always fantasize about being overpowered by someone they deem is safe, someone they have already chosen as a suitable mate. That is not the case in actual rape, which is why for many of us the rape fantasy shares space in our mind with rape as our worst nightmare.

The line between the two is fuzzy. For me that line is crossed when the woman has not in some way already accepted the guy as a lover. The things holding her back from the seduction are not her doubts of him, but her doubts of the deed itself and the consequences of it.

I think sometimes we want someone to come in and demand, “Damn the consequences,” in our lives and tell us to live a little.

I think Romances still get that message across. Thankfully, it isn’t through so many “forced seduction,” scenes.

Now, I do agree with the essence of Linda’s notion, that what we think about a lot will affect our minds/hearts. Like getting acclimated. Or sensitized.

But the salient issues in a ‘forced seduction’ scene to one reader are NOT the same salient issues that will stand out to another reader.

I’m gonna guess what readers who like these scenes aren’t thinking, “Oh, she’s being raped, but wow, he really likes her so, I guess it’s okay….”

The salient issues, the ones they’re getting acclimated to, are the ones others have mentioned, about sexual power and fantasy and getting that in a safe way.

And I’m durn sure they’re not thinking, “Well, maybe it *is* okay to have a man force you to do something you don’t want…”

I have always been drawn by the notion that, sometimes, we are most turned on by scenario’s that are totally at odds w/ the personna we show the world.

The take-charge, go-get-’em woman who can handle anything, may be the one turned on by a ‘forced seduction’ scene. And, being one of those women, I’ll tell ya, ain’t *none* of us gonna let someone do something to us we don’t want. No matter what we read, or how often we read it. I’m not worried about women becoming sensitized to rape by reading romances.

Thanks for the interesting post.

But on the other hand, like Angela mentioned, perhaps this kind of forced seduction allows readers to experience their kink in a safe space. I’d wager that many women feel they don’t have a physical safe space where they can experiment with this sort of sexuality, and the escapist environment of a romance gives them that opportunity.

Well, the “force” seems to also be debatable in how it is done. I think some people might see the “force” as a man kissing and seducing a woman while she lethargically says “no” and listlessly slaps his shoulder while enjoying the attentions. Tie-ing a woman down while she screams “NO!” is completely different.

In real life and in novels, I think, women like to be seduced and talked into sex. I’m not talking about a guy grabbing our crotch as we walk by and say “let’s do it”. I’m talking kisses on the neck, then kisses on the lips and hands on our bodies and while we might say “I’m tired” and “not tonight” we love to be “talked into it” if possible. If we say, firmly, “No.” then we want it to be respected.

But I think ALL women want to be seduced. In the books where I’ve noticed the “force” instead of the “rape” the difference seems to be if the woman REALLY means it. I’m all for being pushed against a wall and taken – as long as I want it to happen.

But in life AND romance, to me, “NO!” means “NO!”

I’m firmly in the Your Kink Is OK camp, and that’s what this is, whether it’s a forced seduction or an out-and-out rape or couples who are into consensual bondage or whatever all else. Sure, we could go into the psychological reasons why any given individual might or might not enjoy this or that kink or trope or gimmick (and I do enjoy doing that — your thoughts on the “safe” hero are interesting, and I think you’ve definitely got something there) but I don’t see a point in making judgements about them. Once folks start doing that, you end up with two armed camps in a flamewar, over something which is really just a matter of personal preference.

I like forced seductions, if I already like the guy doing it. If he was a jerk from page one (which back in the seventies when this was a lot more common, he often was) then I’m not going to like him any more after he holds the heroine down and teaches her what an orgasm is all about. [wry smile] But if I could see him as Hero Material from the beginning, then said orgasm instruction didn’t hurt his image in my eyes.

Other people disagree, and that’s cool. But there’s room on the shelves (or at least in Amazon’s database) for everyone’s kinks.

Angie

Why is it only with SEX that so many people believe women can’t be expected to differentiate between fiction and real life?