Many images plague the romance genre, the most insidious being that of the “bodice ripper.” The phrase conjures visions of heavy bosoms, purple prose, lusty encounters and inevitably, forced seduction.
Forced seduction.
That concept is one of the weightiest points of debate within the genre. Many would classify it as rape, while others consider it ravishment, the epitome of being domineered by a roguish alpha male. I was firmly in the “rape” camp until I reflected on incidents where I’ve been in uncomfortable situations with strange men. As a black woman I am in the lamented situation of being viewed as “automatically available” by many idiotish young black men who feel they have a right to approach me and even touch me when trying to gain my attention simply because we’re both black. Now, sexual assault in the black community is a whole ‘nother discussion, but I was suddenly struck by the fact that perhaps the forced seduction is “empowering” for a woman.
In a romance novel featuring a forced seduction, the heroine is in a safe space. Because the man pushing her physical boundaries is the hero, he does not pose the same threat to her body and mind as a strange man. Thereby, the reader feels “safe” while reading these types of scenes. The reader, whether she places herself in the heroine’s shoes or is simply reading an enjoyable story, has no need of the anxiety, fear and powerlessness of real life as that guy pressing up on the heroine is to be a man who will love and respect her somewhere down the line. Plus, there’s the added bonus of driving a man so mad with desire for you he cannot help himself.
While the forced seduction is not my particular schtick when it comes to romance, I can see why it appeals to many readers. The trouble with debating rape vs forced seduction is that there is no frame of reference. In the many conversations I’ve seen grow into conflagrations over this topic, many people on both sides of the debate are resistant to seeing the other side because they are basing their opinion solely on their emotions.
I am not saying personal opinion and emotion should be discounted, however I feel many are resistant to looking at the genre and personal tastes in a frank and scholarly manner because romance novels are viewed as “popcorn”–even by longtime readers–not worthy of dissecting and discussing. As a result, a language has not been developed for readers to use and it has limited the range of expression when discussing such a hot topic. In a way, romance novels and its readers have been denigrate so long, many of us tend to treat it in a distant manner even amongst one another because of negative experiences.
For a lot of people I know it seems tedious and even intrusive to be forced to open up about a book beyond “I liked it” or “I didn’t like it,” but I feel a lot of the hot feelings aroused in debates of this type could grow more temperate if we as a whole would not view one person’s fantasy as odd or lowbrow (for example, that reader who pops up to ask for books featuring blonde heroines, or jealous gfs, etc), but as interesting and something to discuss.
No related posts.
I’ll admit to liking my pirate tie-me-to-the-mast, instant attraction novels. I don’t think there is anything wrong with them.
Romance novels are fantasy, escapism
and the ravishment fantasy is a common one for women (kind of like the two girls, one guy fantasy for guys – most guys really wouldn’t want to be in that situation).
In romance, I know that the hero is a hero and the heroine will fall in love with this otherwise worthy man. It is a safe way to experience the fantasy.
No, I wouldn’t want to experience it in real life. I wouldn’t want to fall in love with a vampire or werewolf either.
I agree, the kidnapped-by-a-clansman works for me, for the reason you stated: it’s a ’safe’ way to live a fantasy. Many times that hero is also demanding a marriage or other commitment, which is why I think the pull is not a man who would lose control; it’s a man who is so powerfully attracted to the heroine that he would never pull the “I need space” or “I’m not ready for that kind of commitment.”
I don’t like the forced situations. In romance it is fading out. Heroines are less likely to agree to being tied up or anything else. Thank goodness. It was why I stayed clear of romances for a long while, and just recently returned.
When I was younger, my mother forbade us to read romances for that reason. She didn’t want us to think it was okay for anyone to force sex. Actually back in the sixities, if there wasn’t a rape scene, it wasn’t consider a romance.
I agree with Lee. I don’t like forced situations of any kind, and I cannot consider them romantic. And I disagree that they are safe. If you think about something a lot, you tend to believe it’s OK, and forcing in any guise NEVER is.
I’ve stopped reading more than one romance author when she had a so-called “hero” forcing, by whatever name you want to call it, the heroine.
Nobody assumes you want to be a serial killer if you read a thriller, and nobody says, “Don’t read that because it will lead you to believe being a serial killer is okay.”
Why is it only with SEX that so many people believe women can’t be expected to differentiate between fiction and real life?
Kerry, thank you.
What Kerry said. [nod]
I’m firmly in the Your Kink Is OK camp, and that’s what this is, whether it’s a forced seduction or an out-and-out rape or couples who are into consensual bondage or whatever all else. Sure, we could go into the psychological reasons why any given individual might or might not enjoy this or that kink or trope or gimmick (and I do enjoy doing that — your thoughts on the “safe” hero are interesting, and I think you’ve definitely got something there) but I don’t see a point in making judgements about them. Once folks start doing that, you end up with two armed camps in a flamewar, over something which is really just a matter of personal preference.
I like forced seductions, if I already like the guy doing it. If he was a jerk from page one (which back in the seventies when this was a lot more common, he often was) then I’m not going to like him any more after he holds the heroine down and teaches her what an orgasm is all about. [wry smile] But if I could see him as Hero Material from the beginning, then said orgasm instruction didn’t hurt his image in my eyes.
Other people disagree, and that’s cool. But there’s room on the shelves (or at least in Amazon’s database) for everyone’s kinks.
Angie
Great Topic.
Well, the “force” seems to also be debatable in how it is done. I think some people might see the “force” as a man kissing and seducing a woman while she lethargically says “no” and listlessly slaps his shoulder while enjoying the attentions. Tie-ing a woman down while she screams “NO!” is completely different.
In real life and in novels, I think, women like to be seduced and talked into sex. I’m not talking about a guy grabbing our crotch as we walk by and say “let’s do it”. I’m talking kisses on the neck, then kisses on the lips and hands on our bodies and while we might say “I’m tired” and “not tonight” we love to be “talked into it” if possible. If we say, firmly, “No.” then we want it to be respected.
But I think ALL women want to be seduced. In the books where I’ve noticed the “force” instead of the “rape” the difference seems to be if the woman REALLY means it. I’m all for being pushed against a wall and taken – as long as I want it to happen.
But in life AND romance, to me, “NO!” means “NO!”
This is something I’ve thought about a lot in my reading. Part of me is really turned on by the idea of domination and forced seduction, but I’ve also come across some books where the forcing is just plain creepy. I think my line is like Alie’s; there’s a difference between seducing the willing and out-and-out rape. Some romances cross my comfort line, particularly the ones where the hero is basically a jerk who forces himself on an unwilling heroine. Rape is not sexy to me.
But on the other hand, like Angela mentioned, perhaps this kind of forced seduction allows readers to experience their kink in a safe space. I’d wager that many women feel they don’t have a physical safe space where they can experiment with this sort of sexuality, and the escapist environment of a romance gives them that opportunity.
I read somewhere that rape fantasy is a way to reappropriate sexual power, to take back control by turning the experience into something pleasurable. I can’t quite word it the way I read it, but the idea was similar to yours, exploring a fantasy in a safe place.
Thanks for the interesting post.
Great topic. And yay Kerry! 100% RIGHT ON!
Now, I do agree with the essence of Linda’s notion, that what we think about a lot will affect our minds/hearts. Like getting acclimated. Or sensitized.
But the salient issues in a ‘forced seduction’ scene to one reader are NOT the same salient issues that will stand out to another reader.
I’m gonna guess what readers who like these scenes aren’t thinking, “Oh, she’s being raped, but wow, he really likes her so, I guess it’s okay….”
The salient issues, the ones they’re getting acclimated to, are the ones others have mentioned, about sexual power and fantasy and getting that in a safe way.
And I’m durn sure they’re not thinking, “Well, maybe it *is* okay to have a man force you to do something you don’t want…”
I have always been drawn by the notion that, sometimes, we are most turned on by scenario’s that are totally at odds w/ the personna we show the world.
The take-charge, go-get-’em woman who can handle anything, may be the one turned on by a ‘forced seduction’ scene. And, being one of those women, I’ll tell ya, ain’t *none* of us gonna let someone do something to us we don’t want.
No matter what we read, or how often we read it. I’m not worried about women becoming sensitized to rape by reading romances.
I’m glad that Romance has moved on beyond these scenes for the most part. In my early days reading, they became tedious and sometimes upsetting. More often than not either the hero came off as an unsympathetic jerk, or the heroine came of as an unsympathetic rag doll.
That said, the rape fantasy is the number one sexual fantasy of women according to some research I did on the psychology of sexual fantasy. HOWEVER, in the fantasy women always fantasize about being overpowered by someone they deem is safe, someone they have already chosen as a suitable mate. That is not the case in actual rape, which is why for many of us the rape fantasy shares space in our mind with rape as our worst nightmare.
The line between the two is fuzzy. For me that line is crossed when the woman has not in some way already accepted the guy as a lover. The things holding her back from the seduction are not her doubts of him, but her doubts of the deed itself and the consequences of it.
I think sometimes we want someone to come in and demand, “Damn the consequences,” in our lives and tell us to live a little.
I think Romances still get that message across. Thankfully, it isn’t through so many “forced seduction,” scenes.
I second what Kerry and Robyn said. I’d also like to add since everyone has their own level of what’s acceptable and what’s not this is a real “gray” area. I know that I’ve been turned off by a love scene because I thought it crossed the line while my girl friend didn’t see anything wrong with it. Personally, I enjoy forced seduction on occasion but I don’t like rape and as a author I’d never write about it. What it boils down to is preference. So, To each their own :wink
Hrm. I’ve been reading romance for 20 years now. It’s pretty easy to date them from the sexual dynamics, no matter the time period. I just read a 1992 this week that was really borderline – the woman was driven and the man had to convince her that her goals weren’t the only thing. On one hand, he was right, she needed wiggle room. But on the other hand, her goal setting and ambition in and of itself was fine and the thing that bothered me was the lack of distinction between the two.
Fortunately, our societal mores are loosening enough that forced seduction or rape is no longer de rigeur in romance novels. Because while I like me a good consenual bondage scene (also “forced” seduction to some degree), I do NOT like for people to think rape has anything to do with sex. It’s about power.
I do think there is a distinction between rape and forced seduction. So for me, the forced seduction is about teaching a woman about her power. The rape is teaching her she has no power.
An explanation that resonated the most with me on the “rape fantasy” is that women are still punished for enjoying sex and men are rewarded. Therefore, if the woman has orgasmic screaming sex, it must have no consequences in order to be enjoyable. No one can hold it up the next day and put her at fault, or it will ruin the mood. Rape and forced seduction removes the choice and therefore the condemdation from choosing to enjoy sex. If you couldn’t help it, you can’t be accountable, right? So the best way to get great sex you don’t have to apologize for is for your lover to force it on you. Having the terminology to distinguish the two is key because I’ve always shuddered at the idea of a rape fantasy, but I could get behind a “forced seduction” that winds up being empowering.
I’m not saying that this is fair, but it is real. Barbara Kingsolver’s “Animal Dreams” has a scene where a girl says no, the teacher stops the boy, and both the boy AND girl are surprised. Because we are taught that “no” means, “convince me”. Less so today, but the lesson needs to be learned by both sides that “no” means “no”. I really dislike reading scenes where the woman says no for this reason and because I honestly don’t know if she means “no” or “convince me”.
Also this week, I am reading “Bonk, the curious coupling of science and sex”. We know curiously little about something so fundamental scientifically because sex research ruins careers, even now. How ridiculous that people are still afraid of masturbation even? (it would help if it were called something pleasant, I think. Any ideas?)
Gah. It’s late, I’m rambling, and I throw books at the wall after a rape. But where I draw that line may be different from where you draw that line. Keep thinking up new terminology!