I’m 36.
Whew… got that out of the way. I really wanted to chat about this topic, the topic of our dear, darling heroines and how old they are, but I knew I’d have to fess up to the age thing first. ‘Cause that puts my rather narrow minded thoughts in perspective.
An online buddy (the oh-so-talented Lynne Connolly, author of the Triple Countess books) highly recommended Scandalous Lovers by Robin Schone. Told me it was one of her reads for 2007.
I haven’t read it yet.
Why? (Hanging my head, mumbling) Because the heroine is 49 and the hero is 47.
Yep, I suffer from literary ageism. Shameful, shameful. I should be tarred and feathered and branded with a big red A. No, wait, that A might be taken the wrong way (Love you, hubby! Faithfully!).
As I get older (and my hair gets greyer as prematurely happens in my family), I’ve resolved to enjoy each life stage as I get to it. Unfortunately I apply that rule to my poor heroines too.
So I prefer to read about heroines age 36 and younger. I’ve been a teenager. I know how one feels. I haven’t yet been a 50 year old sex goddess (though I do plan to be one, in the future).
It doesn’t make sense, I know. The heroine is not an extension of myself. I read about time shifting Duchesses and I’m certainly not one of them.
I’m not alone with my prejudices. A friend has been moaning and groaning about Stephenie Meyer’s Twilight. She refuses to buy it (despite really, really wanting to) because it is a “kiddie†book.
My Mom, the mother of all romance readers (or at least of this one), has “gotten over†the virginal young heroines of many of my favorite Regency novels. They are all so, so young, she tells me.
Anyone else care to confess about their age preferences? For heroines? Oh, for heroes too? Come on, there has to be a couple people brave enough to buck political correctness.
No related posts.
Nancy G, I didn’t mean to imply that ‘older women’ can’t fall in love, only that I identify with the younger heroines, 20’s & 30’s, ’cause I remember all the difficulties.
I know older women fall in love. My beloved Grandma met and married the most wonderful guy when she was in her late forties, he was in his fifties. They had a wonderful relationship. and we all loved our stepgrandpa.
Allison
Kimber, it’s funny, but I’ve received some of my BEST reader emails from women who say, “I’m in my (30s, 40s, 50s, keeping going up) and I thought I’d never have anything in common with an eighteen year-old heroine, but boy was I wrong! I totally remember going through all of that!”
Which is nice. For myself, I’ve written all over the board—most of my adult heroines tend to be in their mid-30s and up with the males generally close in age, except for one instance where I had a 38 year-old heroine and 25 year-old hero. But they had a lot in common and it was fun to play with the reverse ageism.
I will confess to a particular pet peeve when it comes to ages—I’ve discovered that I prefer to write my YA heroines at 17 or older. I despise when I read books with 15 or 16 year old heroines who sound like 35 year-old divorcées.
So I guess I’m guilty of ageism too!
Alice,
I know a few people my age that have never truly been in love (sure they have crushes but didn’t form any lasting attachments… something about Johnny Depp being busy with movie making or something).
My best gal pal falls into this category. She is shy and a workaholic and is hardly seen between work, the grocery store, and home. I keep telling her, men aren’t going to show up on her doorstep.
‘Course that said, just wait. Tomorrow one will. LOL
“The Blood Myth” is a short story and it’ll be in an anthology later this year; I don’t have a date yet b/c subs for the antho just closed at the end of 07. (very excited, ‘case you couldn’t tell!) I am hoping to explore that world more fully after I finish the novel I’m writing now though *g* Thanks for asking!
The books in question are the Walker Papers series by C. E. Murphy – I’m on the third and the chars still haven’t even admitted that they LIKE each other, but it’s obvious that they do, which is I think is partly why it works. They start out antagonistic and it’s interesting to see the (very slow!) shift, and to see maybe the antagonism was to mask having to deal with their real emotions, blah blah blah. And also, the boss doesn’t abuse the bossness at all. I think once they get to the point of being open about their feelings, she’ll be the one to instigate. He’s too proper. I’m unsure if they WILL get to that point, really, but I like the relationship dynamics regardless. But I’m a Murphy fangirl so you might not want to take my word for it; I’m biased. I keep forgetting the age difference while I’m reading, actually.
April,
I have that problem too. Sure we write from the male perspective and we aren’t male but then I figure that not many males are reading the romances.
However, I know darn well that if I write about a 50 year old woman, a 50 year old woman is likely to read it. And if I get it wrong. Oh, baby.
I guess we could do research. But I feel funny going up to.. say… a friend’s Mom and saying “So tell me all about what’s different about having sex now than it was in your 20’s.” LOL I have problems reading erotica. I can’t imagine having that conversation.
Congrats on finish Its Okay To Cry. Have you started shopping it around.
Wow, Sarai, three manuscripts on the go? And all very different too.
I’m hearing a lot about ages of characters and family members.
I’m now considering myself fortunate that I don’t have kids (at least that’s one plus for the whole infertility thing) and that my Mom (of 6 kids) is still a virgin.
I guess the onus is on the writer to create such a unique character that no one has any Mom or Grandmom visualizations.
Allison, you make me laugh.
One of my medieval writer buddies jokes that she doesn’t have to do research because she was there. LOL
How old is Gina and Luke in Heal My Hurting Heart?
NancyG,
I don’t think anyone is saying that older people don’t fall in love. We had one discussion that older people likely would have fallen in love before at least once (I agree especially if they’ve seen Enchanted… wasn’t James Marsden a hottie? Sigh).
Though if you could please dispell the rumor that sex goes downhill after 36, I’d greatly appreciate it. LOL
Okay, Angelia, I am loving your world already. Any place where an 80 year old can look like a 35 year old is alright with me.
Which novel was that from? Help! My blind eyes can’t find it.
Kimber An,
Moms can be hot Mammas, just not my Mom. Sure I want her to be happy but just like I pretend to be pure and innocent when I’m with her, I’d appreciate the favor returned. Keep me in my happy denial.
I’m saving the unfortunately very few older heroines for when I reach that age and want to read them. I can wait.
Barbara,
I sometimes get that with heroines in their 30’s. I’ll read them and think “What is this chick? Stuck in her 20’s?” Funny the difference a decade makes.
And teens… well, don’t get me started. I listen to teens talk on the bus every day. They have… like… like every… like… word, you know? Then I’ll read a YA where the heroine must have speechwriters, she’s so slick sounding.
Wow, congrats on the win for Adios to My Old Life! That is big, big, huge, big (you get the picture) and SO deserved.
Jess, wow, an anthology. Definitely let me know (drop me an email) when it is out. I love my short reads. Like snacks. Yum.
I like that phrase… the bossness. I’ll have to use it at work (though I prefer Queen Bee, Master of the Universe, has a better ring to it).
What a great topic! I don’t like the huge age difference. Physiologically, I think men age sexually earlier than women. I think that it’s a fact that women have the greatest sex drive in their mid thirties to mid forties. Men have their prime horny years in their early twenties or late teen. So older men with teenage girls doesn’t work for me either. And I work with teenagers during the day, so I know most girls of 17 or 18 aren’t near as mature as they’re sometime written. And modern girls would definitely hit the ‘yuch’ button if a guy in his mid thirties was interested in her. Historically, I’m not sure how that would have worked which is why I read historicals, but I would never dare to write one and show my ignorance.
Oh! To actually contribute to the discussion:
I thin, tentative floundering guess here, that perhaps older women aren’t written as falling in love not because the thought is that it doesn’t happen but because it’s presumed (wrongly?) that many already are. Not neccesarily the mamas can’t be hot mentality so much as a fifty-year-old would already be in a relationship. Stastically I’m unsure if this is entirely true given divorce and second or third marriage rates all rising, but I think it would probably be a prevailing notion, no? I don’t know many fifty-year-old single women except perhaps younger widows. Which leads me to say I think that romances with older characters could be really well done – think of the depth of character to pull from, wow – and that there are certainly many situations and premises for such books… so where are they? I hope I’m wrong with my tentative guess thingy, but I do remember reading somewhere that the average marrying age is 27ish these days (and steadily rising) so it MAY make sense in some way?
I’m sure that y’all (Romance writers as individuals, that is) are not saying that older women can’t have a romance, but, given the dearth of stories featuring us, that’s the prevailing message that the public gets. If the typical romance heroine is 18-30, with a few outliers as old as 45, there is no recognition that the over-50s can have infatuation, lust, love, whatever.
Romance novels provide a hopeful fantasy to lots of women, but some are left out. While I do read books that feature youngsters, it would be nice to read a character that I could really identify with.
Well, NancyG, I think that if I was looking for a romance with older characters, I would be looking at the small press publishers.
Heck, I’ve been told time and time again that there is no market for romances featuring businesspeople who actually love being businesspeople. We are all frustrated artists (I didn’t know that – if I had a choice between business and writing, I would pick business by a wide margin, obviously I’m deceiving myself.).
Another buddy was told to set her stories in a small town because there’s no market for romances set in a big city (’cause you know the millions of people living in big cities all fantasize about living in a small town).
Sounds like “the market” is pretty darn narrow and very defined.
So if that’s the case, I would guess that the “word” is that there’s no market for older characters.
And where do passionate about the topic and sales be darned authors go when there’s “no market”? In my case, it was small press.
Yes, Susan.
I knew someone would have the “facts” about older women and sex. Though lord help me if that drive increases. LOL
My big issue with a wide age difference is the confidence and power level. Actually that’s my prime concern with many relationships. I like the meeting of equals (not the same but equal).
When I was 20, I was a lot less confident than I was at 30. I didn’t know what I was doing career-wise. I didn’t have much savings. I didn’t have enough life experience for those challenging moments we all face. To be paired up with someone who already had all that would be intimidating.
I do it too. I’m a young romance novel reader- 16 years old. I like heroines between 20 and 28 and I like my hero to be older. I know I’m lame and it’s soppy and sexist, but I mainly read historicals. And yes, I wouldn’t be as interested if the heroine was older. Does this make me a bad person? No. It just makes me someone who reads romance novels because they’re fantasy, and someone who doesn’t like fantasies where the heroine reminds me of my Mother *shudder*
It got too much for me once when the heroine was 17 and the hero was 35 and he had slept with her MOTHER before she was born in an epic bodice ripper from the ’80’s. That’s too much. I like between 7 and 10 years difference in hero and heroine and I don’t like old heroines. Maybe I will when I’m older, who knows.
Maddy,
If having a personal preference makes us bad people, then I’m a bad, bad person. Hhhmmm… I kind of like the sound of that. The rebel romance reader.
The hero slept with her MOM? Oh, jeepers, I hope you kept that novel. That’s one for the groaner shelf (along with that Christina Dodd cover with the three armed heroine).
Oh, gross, Maddy! Eeeww… definitely don’t want to read anything like that–who wants to imagine sharing your guy with anyone, much less your mother!?
Kimber, I think that the older I’m getting, the more I prefer older heroines and ones with a bit more life experience. I find myself irritated with the naive innocents (probably unfairly), and like the ones with a bit more life under their belts
And I do agree with everyone about prefer less of an age difference between the hero and heroine–definitely dislike those that exceed ten years!
May all of you under 50 collect extra wrinkles and those icky brown spots and extra weird hairs sprouting out of very unusual places for your romance ageism.
Now come on Ciar, don’t curse us out for having literary preferences.
The thing is that there are thousands of romances published every year and only so many hours in the day.
So some of us allocate those hours first to romances with innocent young bluestocking Regency misses.
I’m not as shallow as I sound… truly! LOL
Fedora,
Yeah, I can see myself growing out of my current age preferences, just as I grew out of my fascination with Barbara Cartland (okay, to be honest, that happened once I had read all her books but still…).
Hopefully when I do, there will be plenty of older heroes and heroines around to select from.
Oh all right, Kimber Chin. Maybe just one extra wrinkle.
Can I simply keep the wrinkles I do have? Maybe stop using that miracle cream that claims to banish them (the cream hasn’t worked… yet, but there’s always hope)?
Yes, I’m going prematurely grey AND wrinkly while my Guyanese-Chinese hubby still looks like he’s 18. Blasted genes.
BTW… congrats on the great reviews for Key West Magic. You know I love that book.
“You can do magic
You can have anything that you desire
Magic, and you know
You’re the one who can put out the fire.”
Goodness, now I’m singing America songs.
Sorry I missed this post earlier! Most of my heroines are in their 30s. I’m 38. My heroines are usually between 30-40. My youngest heroine is the one I’m writing now. She’s 29. I didn’t really plan it that way, but story purposes dictated that she needed to be on the young side and when I did the timeline, she ended up 29.
My single biggest pet peeve about age in books is when there is a very young heroine (say in her 20s) who has a very professional career and is “seasoned.” . . . for example, an FBI agent who is 28 and in charge, or a 27 year old detective. Okay, it’s possible, but it’s not likely. I think my heroines tend to be in their 30s because I want then to be experienced law enforcement, or at least have the life experience to handle the kind of situation I’m going to throw at them and make it believable. Not that I wouldn’t write a young FBI agent ala Clarice Starling some day, but her agent and status would be part of the story, not just a device to keep her “young.”
As far as heroes go, my youngest I believe was 35, my oldest 41 or 42 (boy, I’M getting old because I can’t remember!) Again, I’m sure there are 50 year old guys who can kick butt and chase down the bad guys, but it’s harder for me to buy into it, so I figure it would be harder for readers to buy into it.
I really don’t give much thought to the age of the characters although I have to say it amuses me when I read a historical and a single female character who is younger than I am (I’m 32) is considered “on the shelf”. I’m still single so older heroines give me hope especially around here where it seems like everyone marries right out of high school and I somehow missed that boat completely. When I hear about the average age of 1st time marriage being 27 I think “where?”. However, I grew up hearing stories of a great-grandmother who didn’t marry until 35 so I’ve always thought there was no need to rush.
I also get irritated with the idea of someone being an expert in their field by 30. I guess that’s because due to health issues in my 20’s I didn’t graduate from college until I was 29 so I hate to think I’ve achieved all I’m going to! I feel like I’m still just getting started.
Don’t forget that the expert of Facebook is 23. And just how old are those Google guys anyway? The principal of my high school is 33 and he’s considered an expert in the area & our district (he even has his PhD.)
Being an expert in your field depends on the field, I think, and how the author writes the character. It can’t simply be a label, for that’s not believeable.
That said, I don’t think the locations for books are all that narrow. I’ve written plenty of big city category romances, including New York, Chicago, Washington D.C. and Kansas City. I use St. Louis a lot since I live here.
As for the ages of my heroes & heroines, it just depends. The guy I date is 9.5 years younger than me. We’ve been dating 6 years. (And no, we don’t want to get married, which is probably why it works. I’ve been there, done that.)
I think the age thing is again believability–why do the characters need to be the ages they are? An age gap can cause for conflict, but I think that gap is irrelevant once one of the characters is in his or her mid-late 20s. Personally I keep it to 10 years or less, simply because I find the whole Girls Next Door thing kind of gross.