One common romance character I wouldn’t mind never seeing again is the jealous Hero.
I don’t mean someone who’s teasing-jealous or joking-jealous, but a guy who’s really angry, clenched-fists-and-glaring jealous. The kind of jealousy that has the Hero come stomping up to punch some other guy out because he was — OMG! — smiling at the Hero’s fiancee. The kind of jealousy that has a Hero plotting some guy’s complete financial ruin because his wife, our Heroine, hugged him. (And of course our Hero couldn’t be bothered to ask her about it, and find out that the guy was an old friend who’d just told her he was getting married. Or whatever.)
The message we get here, when it’s the Hero who’s jealous to the point of agression or even violence, is that women are supposed to want agressive, possessive men who get all growly and threatening whenever some other man so much as glances at her. Shows of jealousy are supposed to “prove” he really loves her, and get her feeling all fluttery and romantic.
To me, jealousy proves two things, neither of which has anything to do with love. One is that he sees her as a thing to be hoarded and guarded from marauders, no matter what she herself might want. Two is that he’s incredibly insecure in their relationship and that he doesn’t trust her to love him enough to stay with him if someone new and shiny wanders past. Wow, that’s flattering. :/
The reality of the situation is that jealousy and possessiveness are very negative personality traits. Jealousy and possessiveness can be the first warning signs of an abusive personality, someone who’ll use jealousy as an excuse to control their partner, drive away their friends and check up on their every movement. A woman who thinks jealousy is romantic and a sign of love is likely to miss these warning signs, and tell herself that Bobby’s so angry because he really loves her, and that it’s up to her to work harder not to upset him. If she believes jealousy is romantic, she’ll go on making excuses for him much longer, and think there’s something wrong with her for not appreciating his love, until she’s in a truly nasty situation.
I don’t find jealous women any more attractive than jealous men, but a jealous woman has to work a lot harder to put her boyfriend or husband in the ER. Or in the morgue. Jealous, controlling men do this to their wives and girlfriends regularly. As a reader, I don’t admire — and certainly don’t fantasize about — any fictional character who behaves this way, even if they only show the early signs.
Some writers make good use of the negative aspects of jealousy. Letting the Hero realize his fault and learn better can make for some satisfying character development. One of my very favorite scenes in Judith McNaught’s Whitney, My Love is toward the end when Clayton, who’s been a jealous jerk for a large chunk of the book, suddenly realizes what a mistake he made. I can still see that “Ohmigod, I’m such an idiot!” look on his face in my mind’s eye, and whenever I think about it, it makes me want to read the book again. (Check it out — he does some great grovelling.) Jealousy presented as a fault to be overcome can work very well as a plot driver.
Too often, though, I see jealousy presented as something positive, as something I’m expected to admire in the characters, as something romantic. As a natural result of being in love. Ummm, no. Sorry, that doesn’t work for me.
I realize this is a traditional plot device, and a time-honored personality trait for romantic characters, but we’ve learned better in real life. I think it’s more than time to retire it from romantic fiction.
What do you think?
Angie
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Possessiveness and jealousy seem to be an integral part of most Alpha male heroes. Also controlling. Can’t forget that. I can’t stand watching the hero taking the (very) independent heroine and turning her into a puddle of herself because she loves to be controlled by him and feels secure when the hero acts all possessive about her. I might accept some of these traits in erotic romance novels dealing with BDSM themes, but not outside that.
Tempest — yes, the controlling goes along with it. [nod] I don’t care for that any more than the overt jealousy. I stopped reading a friend’s books because all her guys were like that, for example one of her Heroes mashed food against the Heroine’s clenched teeth because he was trying to force her to eat when she didn’t want to. Umm, no. :/
And even in a BDSM story, if the relationship is healthy, the control is only in context and the sub has the ultimate power. If the Dom is ever really forcing the sub to do something she or he really doesn’t want to do, it’s time for the sub to get out, fast.
Angie
Jealousy and possessiveness doesn’t bother me, but what you described is not what I call jealousy or possessiveness. It sounded like just being plain psycho and abusive to me, and psychotic behavior is not acceptable at all. Alpha males are not psychotic or abusive. They have way too much self control to be psycho. It’s beneath them, and they don’t have to resort to being abusive to lead.
I’ve only run across a few books where I felt the hero leaned toward being a psycho, and those were older books from the late 80s. I’ve only been reading romance for a few years, though, and stick mostly to books from the last decade or nineties now.
I don’t like jealousy when the hero can’t control it. To me, it’s an unheroic character flaw. My definition of an alpha is a confident male who knows who he is and understands his emotions. They may throw him occasionally, but never throw him out of control. A hero who “loses it” in a negative manner with the heroine is not an Alpha to me, but a little boy in need of maturity.
Can you tell this is one of my hot button issues with heroes?:roll:
I recently read a book where the guy was controlling and jealous to the point of being just plain mean. I couldn’t believe that the heroine would stay with the jerk. The entire book I was rooting for the heroine to leave, to run away with another man or maybe just move to another country where the jerk of a hero couldn’t find her. In the end, when the heroine stayed with her hero, I was disappointed.
The hero acted like he owned the heroine. He didn’t smash food into her mouth, but he wouldn’t let her talk to anyone while he could flirt with his old flame. He wouldn’t talk to the heroine, but he shared stuff with the old flame. The heroine told him it wasn’t fair and he basically said tough, I own you and you can do nothing about it. Very emotionally abusive relationship. Not at all what women should look to as a role model. The guy never really got the “Oh God, I screwed up” moment.
I agree with Chatelaine.
And don’t equate a natural and very real jealous growl with the abusive types of your extreme examples.
I think jealous reactions are quite normal in real life, not just romantic fiction.
Guys do get a little short and grouchy if someone comes on to their girlfriend, and many women feel the bitchy urge rising if some female sidles up to their man.
Sometimes, what is called jealousy is based on the protective urge, not of the protection of “property, but on protecting the well-being of the person loved from predatory types.
Jealousy is a very human emotion
and everyone suffers from it.
Ever hear of someone winning a million dollars
and wish it was you?
That is jealousy.
What matters is what you do with the jealousy.
My Mom (a very wise woman) always told me that jealousy isn’t about the other person, it is about you. It is a sign of what you want, what you miss.
So a hero may be jealous of the closeness a male friend has with the heroine. He realizes that “hey, I want that too” and figures out a way to achieve it.
Your examples are basically the hero using jealousy as an excuse to be abusive. Jealousy is not the cause. Odds are the person would be abusive even without the jealousy.
I’ve had jealous characters now and then, who went straight from alpha male to psycho abusers.
One broke his artist lover’s finger, then threatened to break his whole hand and blind him.
I’m working with one now who is a total rotter, and does blind his lover for looking at another man. (The lover lets him, for reasons of his own. The story is erotic horror, not really romance)
But I’ve also created characters where jealousy is a problem to be solved, and they actively work on it through the story.
All that said, I like the acknowledgement that people are people and people get jealous. But an over-the-top reaction of a control-freak would send me running, if the controlled party stays with him out of anything but fear.
LC — it’s possible we’re talking about two different things. I can’t think of a way a character could overtly express jealousy that would make me see it as a positive or desirable thing, but maybe you’re thinking of behavior I’d call something else?
Sarah — that’s my thought to. If he can’t control it, or even if he can control it but thinks it’s right to act on his feelings in an aggressive, negative way, that’s not heroic to me.
Sara — I’ve read a number of books like that too, and I always wonder what the Heroine sees in this guy. [sigh]
Bernita — I think we’re talking about two different things, though. If a guy is actually coming on to the Hero’s wife, and her “Not interested, go away,” is ignored, then I have no problem with the Hero going up and telling the guy what’s what, or even beating the stuffing out of him if Mr. Lothario looks like he still won’t take “Bug off” for an answer. Protective is good and I definitely get into that in a romance. That’s not what I’m talking about, though.
To me, jealousy isn’t about protecting one’s partner; it’s about protecting one’s own property, about building an emotional fence around one’s partner and not only keeping others out but keeping one’s partner in, regardless of her or his own wishes. Jealousy sees a “come on” in every casual laugh or friendly glance, in both strangers and in one’s partner. That’s how I define it, anyway.
And yes, the desire to keep what one thinks of as one’s own might well be natural, but I think it’s one of those impulses we need to control in order to get along in a civilized society. I can deal with a character feeling a bit possessive so long as he (or she) keeps it under control.
KC — Ever hear of someone winning a million dollars
and wish it was you?
That is jealousy.
To me, that’s not jealousy, but rather envy. If I wish I had that million, that’s just envy. If I think nasty or spiteful thoughts about the person who won it — about how they didn’t deserve it, or must have cheated to get it for example — that’s jealousy.
I think your Mom was correct, though, that the problem is with the jealous person, not anyone else. [nod]
Angelia — I can deal with it either way, whether the jealous-and-aggressive guy is cast as an antagonist, or maybe an anti-hero, or whether he eventually acknowledges the fault and works on getting over it. It’s when, as you said, “the controlled party stays with him out of anything but fear” that I start backing off emotionally and have a hard time empathizing.
Angie
I’m with Bernita and Chatelaine, though you’re right. By your definition, we’re talking about two different things.
But romances deal in fantasy, and for me a hero who was completely secure and had no problems with the heroine’s friendships with the opposite sex would be a big Zzzzzz. In real life, that’s my husband. In fantasy, I want someone who seems to have it all but has reasons for his insecurity and, yes, growls “You’re mine!” on occasion. When it crosses the line into abuse, I no longer consider that jealousy- or at least, it isn’t jealousy on the same level.
Angela,
I stand corrected.
You’re absolutely right.
Envy is a two party emotion
where as jealousy is a three party emotion,
between the subject, the rival and the beloved
with the focus being the beloved.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/envy/#1.2
Huh, learn something new every single day.
Mmmmm I’m going to have to disagree. Jealousy is something I see in characters when they’re NOT SURE of the person.
In other words, in a committed relationship jealousy is ugly and unattractive. But in a DEVELOPING relationship when there is conflict between two people, it’s natural. Especially for the hero.
I don’t know if it necessarily means the hero is going to deck a guy for looking at “his woman”, but he won’t like it.
I agree . . . this is one of several characteristics and/or plot devices that I personally think should be retired.
I admit that yes, I don’t like the cliched jealous hero, specially when he plans to destroy the heroine(other hero) as you say, why would she like him when he’s planned to do such awful things to her?
In Standish I had a character like that, but he was the spurned lover of MC A and he thought that by trying to remove MC B that MC A would love him again – which is (from personal experience) a very common stalker characteristic, but not a nice one! Anyway he didn’t get anyone in the end.
Robyn — I definitely agree that characters who have no flaws and never make mistakes are boring. [nod] Like I said, it’s fine if the jealous character (eventually) recognizes the flaw and works on it; that can be great character development. What really turns me off is when the jealous behavior is presented as a good thing, as something romantic and desirable. That’s just a major turn-off for me.
Jennifer — This could be a YMMV sort of thing. To me, though, if a guy expresses jealousy more than once or twice, he gets booted. And if it’s that early in the relationship, he’s more likely to get booted without my trying to talk to him about it first. Overt jealousy is one of those self-fulfilling prophecy things, you know? (Of course, that could be the basis of a really good storyline
but I don’t know how romantic it would be. [wry smile])
And again, I’m not talking about some envy, or some purely internalized doubts, but rather overt jealousy which is acted upon. Even if it’s only a look or a snark or a passive-agressive comment, to me that’s a strike against the character. Thinking, Wow, she’s got all these other good-looking men eyeing her up, I’d better try twice as hard to be a great date tonight, and I’ll send her a dozen roses tomorrow — that’s fine.
Bettye — we could probably make a list.
Erastes — the Jealous Jerk makes a great villain, or at least a great Alternate Choice Who Isn’t Chosen, definitely. [nod] One can only hope they learn better for when the next fish comes along. And in fact, now that I think about it, I have seen romance writers pluck the bad guy out of one story, have him realize what a jerk he was, and make him the hero in a sequel. Claudette Williams did that twice that I recall.
And yes, that’s definitely common stalker behavior. :/
Angie
YES!!!
Insecurity—not of themselves, but of the relationship—can be a great source of conflict. I think it’s all about how it’s handled and addressed.
I mean, I’ve had boyfriends where I was very touchy and jealous during the beginning phases, and I’ve had boyfriends that I was totally secure of (with one, our favorite game was to show up at big parties separately and spend the whole night flirting with other people, making eye contact across the room, and basically trying to one-up the other one in terms of who we could replace them with, LOL! It was a blast, but only because I KNEW we’d be leaving together).
Agree that it’s somewhat of a natural emotion in a developing relationship–it’s insecurity, the unknown. Who is this person? Do they really, really want only me? Agreed also that it’s how they act out. A little hissy fit on either side is okay, although in modern romance, an alpha male is not allowed to throw a hissy fit. His jealousy is often acted out in unhealthy ways, and I’m not sure I really like the possessiveness. I don’t endorse stalking, violence, abuse, but normal human emotions…well, they make characters more believable to me. It brings up the whole alpha thing too. Sometimes I wonder what readers really want? We are supposed to pair the kick-arse heroine with the aggressive alpha and have them bite at each other (often literally) throughout the book? Or yell profanities at one another and then fall passionately into bed? That’s getting a bit old to me. One thing I admire about Nora, for example, is her ability to write fairly “normal” people in her romances, but make them compelling without giving them extreme characteristics (I said in romances, mind you ;o)
Jealousy is a normal emotion–not a useful or healthy one, but something most of us feel at one point or another. (And this is coming from the Poster Child for Polyamoury, so I imagine it’s more so among the monogamously inclined.)
Feeling it is part of human nature and I have no problem with either hero or heroine having moments of self-doubt, doubt of the relationship, jealousy, etc.–if they at least have some believable reason to feel that doubt and if they handle their negative feelings in a halfway rational fashion. If the guy/girl goes ballistic every time their lust object talks to someone of the appropriate gender, that’s a sign of Having Issues and it better be handled really, really well.
In my first novel, a menage, which is due out in 2008, I use jealousy, but it is not presented in a positive light, and leads to some serious consequences.
I don’t like the big macho jealous alpha types in any story, not just in romance, and I think that jealousy should be presented as a fault.
This is an interesting discussion and a great article!
Kalen — I agree it can be a great source of conflict in a story. [nod] And it sounds like you and your boyfriend had a great time with the party flirting.
Ciar — exactly, it depends how it’s acted out. If jealousy is a source of an argument, and the couple eventually works through it, then that can strengthen the story. Some insecurity at the beginning of a relationship is normal, definitely, and it can be a good starting position from which the relationship grows and strengthens. It’s when the characters make jealousy and possessiveness and control of their partner a standard mode of operation, and it’s presented in such a way that the reader is clearly supposed to approve and think it’s romantic, that it goes over the line, at least for me.
Safira — I agree that jealousy is a natural impulse for many people. But so is the impulse to bash someone over the head and take what they have. [wry smile] Being a civilized person means disciplining ourselves not to surrender to all our natural impulses. It’s not so much the fact that the characters feel jealousy (or other negative emotions) that I have a problem with, but rather the way the jealousy is often expressed, and the expectation that the reader will think an aggressively negative expression of jealousy is sweet and loving. :/
I’m with you — someone who acts out over jealousy has serious issues. If the story deals with them as issues, as character flaws, then that’s great; it can add a lot of interest to the story and depth to the character. But yes, the writer needs to handle this well or I have a hard time empathizing with the characters.
Angie
Margaret — we were typing at the same time.
Thanks, it sounds like we’re pretty much on the same wavelength.
Angie
I agree with those who say it isn’t the jealousy that is the issue, but what the character does with it. In my current WIP (please God, soon to be finished!) both the heroine and the hero have a jealous moment and are really hurt by it BUT (big but) in both cases it is obviously caused by insecurity (which they have reasons for) and in both causes they ask the other what was going on and are satisfied with the there-wasn’t-anything-going-on answer. For both characters, the emotion was completely understandable and (I hope, if I have done my job well!) excusable in the circumstances.
The problem, as I see it, is not jealousy, but a sense of ownership, which can be part of an abusive mindset and is, in any case, not acceptable in a modern context. I have been reading some historicals lately, where there is a stronger sense of ’she is mine’ with the heroes, but I didn’t find it repulsive, because in that context it was more acceptable – partly because, in a society where women were often treated as chattels, it could be a matter of safety for a woman to be known to be protected by a bigger and scarier man. Also because the heroes were genuninely decent men, who didn’t extend the he-man act to their private relations with the heroine.
I think jealousy is normal, and, in moderate doses, can be a sign that the other person cares about you. Anybody thinking that they own or can dictate to another person, is a different matter. It is the opposite of sexy and romantic and I agree we can do without it in characters we are supposed to like.
Imelda — I agree that overt jealousy is much more likely to fit into a historical novel. [nod] Even there, though, I’m less likely to like or empathize with the character if they’re caveman-jealous all the way through the story and never get over with it, try to deal with it, or even acknowledge that it might be a problem. I still disagree that jealousy is a natural and inevitable result of loving someone, but clearly there are a variety of viewpoints here — which is good because this would’ve been a much less interesting discussion if everyone had agreed.
But yes, the real sticking point is what the character does with or about the feeling of jealousy, rather than whether or not they feel it in the first place; I definitely agree with you there. Someone who feels jealousy but doesn’t let it control him can be a perfectly admirable character.
Angie
Angela Benedetti said:
the real sticking point is what the character does with or about the feeling of jealousy, rather than whether or not they feel it in the first place; I definitely agree with you there. Someone who feels jealousy but doesn’t let it control him can be a perfectly admirable character.
Have you checked out Suzanne Brockmann’s All Through the Night? It includes a jealous hero….who acknowledges that it IS a problem for the relationship. He’s both possessive and jealous; his partner is okay with the possessiveness, though, and they both confront through out the book.
I definitely agree that a jealous hero is not something that I would want to read about. But a touch of jealousy is only right and natural to me. I think you can feel some slight jealousy, but acting upon it is the biggest problem, which is what I think you are talking about. But I do agree with you that reading a book with a jealous and possessive hero would be a big turnoff for me.
jmc — no, I haven’t read that but it sounds interesting. Thanks for the rec!
Ello — exactly. [nod] I’m not going to toss a book because the guy (or anyone else) feels a twinge of jealousy occasionally. It’s what he does about it that makes all the difference.
Angie
A moment my wife remembers but she had to remind me of a few years ago. Early on in our relationship she told me a manager of the company we both worked for had hit on her — more than just a serious flirt.
As she tells the story, I asked: “Did that flatter you or annoy you?”
She was surprised by the question and asked: “Why?”
“If it flattered you,he has good taste,” she tells me I answered very matter-of-factly. “If it annoyed you it won’t happen again.”
She says she assured me she’d handled it and it wouldn’t happen again.
She said my response was something she hadn’t seen before and she thought it said a lot about me. She also thinks the fact I put the matter completely out of my head after she’d assured me she’d handled it said even more.
Frankly, my response strikes me as dead-center average.
Jealousy — reducing someone you say you love to the status of property you must defend makes no sense to me. I associate it with alpha-male scociopathy. There’s nothing heroic about it. Unless — as someone said a bit earlier — it’s a character flaw the protagonist overcomes, jealousy can never be a part of any romantic lead.
KeVin — You know, reading that exchange in a romance novel would make me smile.
Perfect response IMHO; your wife is a very fortunate woman.
Angie (who’s too lazy to log in this morning)
I know this is several days late, but I wanted to say that I completely agree. And most specifically because of the big reason that you mentioned — jealousy / possessiveness are big warning signs of abuse. My father was very jealous, to the point he made my mother quit her job waiting tables at a bar to be a stay at home girlfriend, and literally, would not let her leave the house. Then, he started literally beating the living #@*# out of her.
Years later, I dealt with the same thing in my first love. He was very possessive and controlling, and while it finally ended before he ever took a swing, the emotional and mental abuse wrecked me for a long time.
Now, as a grown woman who is polyamorous, I find jealousy not to be so much a warning sign of abuse, but as an insecurity factor, simply because I tend to choose my men a little more selectively. Now, I view jealousy as what it really is – not some romantic, possessive notion of a dominant male, but as the insecurities of a small boy trapped inside a man manifesting them self the only way they know how.
Honestly, jealous heroes don’t bother me if it’s something that they overcome in the story. I look at them as wounded birds who need the heroine’s love to help them overcome their insecurities.
However, when jealousy is seen as a flattering situation, it tends to irk me, because you just know that after the book closes, Ike & Tina are going to replace the Hero & Heroine.
Matdredalia — no problem, comments are always welcome no matter how long after.
I’m very sorry for your mother. It’s horrible how many women have to deal with an abusive husband or boyfriend. And thinking about how much easier it is for them to escape now than it was a generation or two ago, much less a century ago, is both hopeful and depressing.
I think there’s always insecurity in jealousy, no matter what the jealous person does about it, if anything. If you’re sure of your partner then there’s never any actual reason to be jealous.
But yes, that’s it exactly — jealousy can be used as a great plot point in a story, as an obstacle to be overcome or whatever, but when it’s presented as something the writer intends to be flattering or desirable, they just lose me. :/
Angie