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	<title>Comments on: Jerks in Shining Armor</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/</link>
	<description>What's hip, what's now, what's tomorrow in the romance genre world.</description>
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		<title>By: Poison Ivy</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18946</link>
		<dc:creator>Poison Ivy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18946</guid>
		<description>The love between a heroine and a hero is supposed to be a unique recognition that allows the hero to set down his burden, often a chip on his shoulder but sometimes other negative personality issues. Love gives the hero a reason to be his best self, because the heroine knows and loves that part of him that no one else has ever seen. 

Well, that&#039;s the theory. It isn&#039;t changing the person; it&#039;s giving the person a safe place to be who he is inside. Or maybe to develop a side of himself that he has never previously seen a reward in developing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The love between a heroine and a hero is supposed to be a unique recognition that allows the hero to set down his burden, often a chip on his shoulder but sometimes other negative personality issues. Love gives the hero a reason to be his best self, because the heroine knows and loves that part of him that no one else has ever seen. </p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s the theory. It isn&#8217;t changing the person; it&#8217;s giving the person a safe place to be who he is inside. Or maybe to develop a side of himself that he has never previously seen a reward in developing.</p>
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		<title>By: Domingo Delicioso #10 &#171; Desperate Writer</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18901</link>
		<dc:creator>Domingo Delicioso #10 &#171; Desperate Writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 06:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18901</guid>
		<description>[...] Great article, Karen T! You know, the story goes my Mom couldn&#8217;t stand my Dad when they first met. I&#8217;m sure glad they got over it! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Great article, Karen T! You know, the story goes my Mom couldn&#8217;t stand my Dad when they first met. I&#8217;m sure glad they got over it! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: B.E. Sanderson</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18899</link>
		<dc:creator>B.E. Sanderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 03:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18899</guid>
		<description>One of my first big crushes as a teen was on a boy I started out hating.  Then after all the romances I&#039;d read, I figured I was missing the deeper, sensitive parts of his alpha-ness.  We went out on two dates.

Ummm... I should never have second-guessed myself.  He wasn&#039;t an alpha.  He was an ass.  My husband&#039;s a real alpha, and he&#039;s the best.  A real alpha doesn&#039;t have to be an ass to get his point across, to lead, or let his strong personality shine.  I write alpha males like that.  =o)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my first big crushes as a teen was on a boy I started out hating.  Then after all the romances I&#8217;d read, I figured I was missing the deeper, sensitive parts of his alpha-ness.  We went out on two dates.</p>
<p>Ummm&#8230; I should never have second-guessed myself.  He wasn&#8217;t an alpha.  He was an ass.  My husband&#8217;s a real alpha, and he&#8217;s the best.  A real alpha doesn&#8217;t have to be an ass to get his point across, to lead, or let his strong personality shine.  I write alpha males like that.  =o)</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Templeton</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18896</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Templeton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18896</guid>
		<description>Well, left another post yesterday, only the site or Wordpress went all squirrely on me.  Not only ate the post, but wouldn&#039;t let me back in. :evil:

I just wanted to reiterate, though, that I see a huge difference between stories in which the heroine believes *her* love can change the hero (a dangerous path to trod, IMO), and those in which the hero&#039;s love for the *heroine* brings about the transformation.  The first rarely, if ever, works for me, the second turns me to J-ello every time. :wink:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, left another post yesterday, only the site or Wordpress went all squirrely on me.  Not only ate the post, but wouldn&#8217;t let me back in. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_evil.gif' alt=':evil:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I just wanted to reiterate, though, that I see a huge difference between stories in which the heroine believes *her* love can change the hero (a dangerous path to trod, IMO), and those in which the hero&#8217;s love for the *heroine* brings about the transformation.  The first rarely, if ever, works for me, the second turns me to J-ello every time. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ciar Cullen</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18887</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciar Cullen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18887</guid>
		<description>I probably should have said psychological rather than psychic. I&#039;ve been writing ghosts lately...:roll:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I probably should have said psychological rather than psychic. I&#8217;ve been writing ghosts lately&#8230;:roll:</p>
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		<title>By: Ciar Cullen</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18886</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciar Cullen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18886</guid>
		<description>I loved this post, Karen. I enjoy the hero&#039;s psychic journey very much, and as long as it makes sense, I&#039;ll fall in love with him too. I&#039;m talking about the fictional alphas with a beta center ;o)--not real life. In real life, that journey is rarely wrapped up in the real time equivalent of a few hundred pages, but I&#039;ve seen something close to it. 

I think the best romances are about individual redemption as much as romantic love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved this post, Karen. I enjoy the hero&#8217;s psychic journey very much, and as long as it makes sense, I&#8217;ll fall in love with him too. I&#8217;m talking about the fictional alphas with a beta center ;o)&#8211;not real life. In real life, that journey is rarely wrapped up in the real time equivalent of a few hundred pages, but I&#8217;ve seen something close to it. </p>
<p>I think the best romances are about individual redemption as much as romantic love.</p>
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		<title>By: Kacie J</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18885</link>
		<dc:creator>Kacie J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18885</guid>
		<description>&quot;is it possible that fantasy only reinforces the idea that abuse is normal and abusive men should be coddled and forgiven?&quot;

This is an idea that&#039;s been discussed in academic circles, specifically by Tania Modleski and Janice Radway, but I think most romance readers are capable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality.  To paraphrase Modleski, we may enjoy reading about such men in fiction, but if we were confronted by some of them in real life, most of us would show them the door--and fast.  

I think that the way in which extremely alpha males are brought to their knees at the end of the romance novel--through the power of the heroine&#039;s love--can be an incredibly empowering fantasy.  But real men don&#039;t slay dragons, and most of us don&#039;t expect them to--any more than most men expect the women they love to look like a Playboy centerfold model.

Of course, some people will always have difficulties distinguishing between fantasy and reality, but I think that&#039;s the exception, rather than the norm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;is it possible that fantasy only reinforces the idea that abuse is normal and abusive men should be coddled and forgiven?&#8221;</p>
<p>This is an idea that&#8217;s been discussed in academic circles, specifically by Tania Modleski and Janice Radway, but I think most romance readers are capable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality.  To paraphrase Modleski, we may enjoy reading about such men in fiction, but if we were confronted by some of them in real life, most of us would show them the door&#8211;and fast.  </p>
<p>I think that the way in which extremely alpha males are brought to their knees at the end of the romance novel&#8211;through the power of the heroine&#8217;s love&#8211;can be an incredibly empowering fantasy.  But real men don&#8217;t slay dragons, and most of us don&#8217;t expect them to&#8211;any more than most men expect the women they love to look like a Playboy centerfold model.</p>
<p>Of course, some people will always have difficulties distinguishing between fantasy and reality, but I think that&#8217;s the exception, rather than the norm.</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18884</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18884</guid>
		<description>I love manly men but I do think we live in a culture that encourages women to tolerate seriously abusive behavior as the norm. Romance novels reflect that at times. It&#039;s interesting (and positive) that the romance fantasy has the woman always taming the man AND (usually) shows what a sweet guy he is, underneath it all, but is it possible that fantasy only reinforces the idea that abuse is normal and abusive men should be coddled and forgiven? I&#039;m not pointing fingers at SEP or any other authors (I write about manly men, myself) but could it be that our culture leaves us a little brainwashed as to what&#039;s admirable in a man?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love manly men but I do think we live in a culture that encourages women to tolerate seriously abusive behavior as the norm. Romance novels reflect that at times. It&#8217;s interesting (and positive) that the romance fantasy has the woman always taming the man AND (usually) shows what a sweet guy he is, underneath it all, but is it possible that fantasy only reinforces the idea that abuse is normal and abusive men should be coddled and forgiven? I&#8217;m not pointing fingers at SEP or any other authors (I write about manly men, myself) but could it be that our culture leaves us a little brainwashed as to what&#8217;s admirable in a man?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Templeton</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18881</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Templeton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18881</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Got some juices flowing here, did we? :lol:

(Although the first juice to flow was mine, when, yawning, I sat down to my computer to discover the post I&#039;d scheduled for tomorrow had been moved up to TODAY.  :shock:)

Kerry says: &quot;The romance novel alpha male does not suddenly don a suit of shining armor. The gleam just starts to show through the tarnish concealing the one he’s always worn.&quot;

See, that&#039;s the point I was trying to make in the examples I gave (although I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s true, unfortunately, of all romance novel alphas).  If I can see those gleams, the guys works for me.  If I can&#039;t -- and fairly soon, although I am willing to give the author SOME time to let me hate him :wink:-- then he doesn&#039;t.

I also think there&#039;s a difference (and maybe I didn&#039;t make this clear) in stories about love making someone want to be a better person and those in which a woman  believes *her* love can change a man.  I completely believe in the first, but have far more problems with the second.

Love, all by itself, is a powerful force for good, on so many levels.  Heaven knows we&#039;ve all heard testimonies from people who credit that one person who believed in them -- who saw the shining armor beneath the tarnish -- with saving their lives, sometimes literally.  Unselfish love for someone else very often can shake that person awake to his or her true potential, which in turn often unleashes that person&#039;s own capacity to love in return.  

But the kind of love that sees the true person underneath the dreck does not tolerate or enable or excuse the dreck, either.  I do believe in reformation -- assuming one isn&#039;t dealing with a hardened psychopath, that is.  But I also think it&#039;s easier to believe in the reformation of someone who got somehow bumped off course, rather than someone who was never on the right course to begin with.

That&#039;s why I (and apparently, lotsa other readers) love stories about guys-gone-wrong who find the one woman who can get their heads screwed back on straight.  Darcy, Rochester, Gabe Bonner -- none of them were bad, just misguided. Or hurting.  A whole &#039;nother animal, however, from the real life so-called men who are, for all intents and purposes, waaaay beyond redemption.  In those cases, love is definitely not enough -- as their women&#039;s lives can attest.

And now, back to you. :mrgreen:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Got some juices flowing here, did we? <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>(Although the first juice to flow was mine, when, yawning, I sat down to my computer to discover the post I&#8217;d scheduled for tomorrow had been moved up to TODAY.  <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif' alt=':shock:' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>Kerry says: &#8220;The romance novel alpha male does not suddenly don a suit of shining armor. The gleam just starts to show through the tarnish concealing the one he’s always worn.&#8221;</p>
<p>See, that&#8217;s the point I was trying to make in the examples I gave (although I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s true, unfortunately, of all romance novel alphas).  If I can see those gleams, the guys works for me.  If I can&#8217;t &#8212; and fairly soon, although I am willing to give the author SOME time to let me hate him <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> &#8211; then he doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I also think there&#8217;s a difference (and maybe I didn&#8217;t make this clear) in stories about love making someone want to be a better person and those in which a woman  believes *her* love can change a man.  I completely believe in the first, but have far more problems with the second.</p>
<p>Love, all by itself, is a powerful force for good, on so many levels.  Heaven knows we&#8217;ve all heard testimonies from people who credit that one person who believed in them &#8212; who saw the shining armor beneath the tarnish &#8212; with saving their lives, sometimes literally.  Unselfish love for someone else very often can shake that person awake to his or her true potential, which in turn often unleashes that person&#8217;s own capacity to love in return.  </p>
<p>But the kind of love that sees the true person underneath the dreck does not tolerate or enable or excuse the dreck, either.  I do believe in reformation &#8212; assuming one isn&#8217;t dealing with a hardened psychopath, that is.  But I also think it&#8217;s easier to believe in the reformation of someone who got somehow bumped off course, rather than someone who was never on the right course to begin with.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I (and apparently, lotsa other readers) love stories about guys-gone-wrong who find the one woman who can get their heads screwed back on straight.  Darcy, Rochester, Gabe Bonner &#8212; none of them were bad, just misguided. Or hurting.  A whole &#8216;nother animal, however, from the real life so-called men who are, for all intents and purposes, waaaay beyond redemption.  In those cases, love is definitely not enough &#8212; as their women&#8217;s lives can attest.</p>
<p>And now, back to you. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif' alt=':mrgreen:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kimber Chin</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/20/jerks-in-shining-armor/comment-page-1/#comment-18880</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimber Chin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/07/21/jerks-in-shining-armor/#comment-18880</guid>
		<description>&quot;Everyone needs someone to tell them when they’re being a jack a$$.&quot;

Btw...
The heroine should really be that person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Everyone needs someone to tell them when they’re being a jack a$$.&#8221;</p>
<p>Btw&#8230;<br />
The heroine should really be that person.</p>
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