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	<title>Comments on: Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know; or, Just a Jerk?</title>
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	<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/</link>
	<description>What's hip, what's now, what's tomorrow in the romance genre world.</description>
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		<title>By: The Romance Genre on the Web &#187; Heroes - Alphas? Or leaders?</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-17005</link>
		<dc:creator>The Romance Genre on the Web &#187; Heroes - Alphas? Or leaders?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-17005</guid>
		<description>[...] There was a great, lively discussion last week in response to Sarah Frantz&#8217;s post, Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Know; or, Just a Jerk? on Romancing the Blog. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There was a great, lively discussion last week in response to Sarah Frantz&#8217;s post, Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Know; or, Just a Jerk? on Romancing the Blog. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KeVin Killiany</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16943</link>
		<dc:creator>KeVin Killiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16943</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;I’m with KeVin on this one&lt;/i&gt;&quot; 
One of those phrases that lets me know right off I&#039;m reading a person of intelligence. An admirable trait in one (goes to check her site) half my age.

Also, if there were a way to do find/replace on this thread, I&#039;d change all my &quot;&lt;i&gt;gamma&lt;/i&gt; males&quot; to &quot;&lt;i&gt;evolved&lt;/i&gt; males.&quot; Elegantly expresses what I meant to say while misusing the gamma appellation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>I’m with KeVin on this one</i>&#8221;<br />
One of those phrases that lets me know right off I&#8217;m reading a person of intelligence. An admirable trait in one (goes to check her site) half my age.</p>
<p>Also, if there were a way to do find/replace on this thread, I&#8217;d change all my &#8220;<i>gamma</i> males&#8221; to &#8220;<i>evolved</i> males.&#8221; Elegantly expresses what I meant to say while misusing the gamma appellation.</p>
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		<title>By: Roslyn</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16938</link>
		<dc:creator>Roslyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16938</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with KeVin on this one, probably because I did my stint in social services as well. Particularly when I see these alphas paired with &#039;sweet little things&#039; as Diana Palmer is wont to do. That&#039;s not a romance, that&#039;s a domestic violence situation in the making. No, I don&#039;t care for alphas and don&#039;t write them at all. I guess I got enough of them back when I was a teenager in the 80s. Now that I&#039;m a grown woman I want to read about evolved men. Not men who are running around acting like he&#039;s part of a wolfpack. A lot of authors I used to read back then are still writing those types of males which is why I had to stop reading them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with KeVin on this one, probably because I did my stint in social services as well. Particularly when I see these alphas paired with &#8217;sweet little things&#8217; as Diana Palmer is wont to do. That&#8217;s not a romance, that&#8217;s a domestic violence situation in the making. No, I don&#8217;t care for alphas and don&#8217;t write them at all. I guess I got enough of them back when I was a teenager in the 80s. Now that I&#8217;m a grown woman I want to read about evolved men. Not men who are running around acting like he&#8217;s part of a wolfpack. A lot of authors I used to read back then are still writing those types of males which is why I had to stop reading them.</p>
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		<title>By: R.</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16901</link>
		<dc:creator>R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16901</guid>
		<description>1. Intelligence and honor, inner strength and humility, a sense of humor and the ability to laugh at himself, the capacity to grow and evolve.  The hero has to be a man I can respect.  And being buff wouldn&#039;t hurt.

2. Robin Hood and King Arthur -- one did the wrong things for the right reasons, and the other tried to bring about an age of enlightenment wherein right makes might.  Both acted for the greater good at great personal risk.

3. Yes.  The heroine must also be worthy of my respect.  Each character must be interesting on his/her own, and then together as a mated pair.

4. Both -- it&#039;s the only way to have balance.

5. I&#039;d like to witness the initial meeting.  Sex scenes minus purple prose are great.  Reconciliation scenes are a requisite if the story arc calls for them.  And yes, I do want to be present for the realization of love from both perspectives.

6. &#039;Alpha male&#039; and &#039;bully&#039; are not synonymous for me.

7. Dialogue must flow naturally -- forced and contrived dialogue is worse than a bad-ass bully posing as an alpha.  And for gods&#039; sakes, get the research right!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Intelligence and honor, inner strength and humility, a sense of humor and the ability to laugh at himself, the capacity to grow and evolve.  The hero has to be a man I can respect.  And being buff wouldn&#8217;t hurt.</p>
<p>2. Robin Hood and King Arthur &#8212; one did the wrong things for the right reasons, and the other tried to bring about an age of enlightenment wherein right makes might.  Both acted for the greater good at great personal risk.</p>
<p>3. Yes.  The heroine must also be worthy of my respect.  Each character must be interesting on his/her own, and then together as a mated pair.</p>
<p>4. Both &#8212; it&#8217;s the only way to have balance.</p>
<p>5. I&#8217;d like to witness the initial meeting.  Sex scenes minus purple prose are great.  Reconciliation scenes are a requisite if the story arc calls for them.  And yes, I do want to be present for the realization of love from both perspectives.</p>
<p>6. &#8216;Alpha male&#8217; and &#8216;bully&#8217; are not synonymous for me.</p>
<p>7. Dialogue must flow naturally &#8212; forced and contrived dialogue is worse than a bad-ass bully posing as an alpha.  And for gods&#8217; sakes, get the research right!</p>
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		<title>By: KeVin Killiany</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16899</link>
		<dc:creator>KeVin Killiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16899</guid>
		<description>Yep, hadn&#039;t researched gamma males -- I was using them in the romance contest. Which makes no sense because I wasn&#039;t using the romance definition of alpha. So consistent I&#039;m not. In my own lexicon of male categoris in the broadest sense, it was alphas as top dogs, betas as wanna be alphas, gammas as not even interested in being part of the pack, and everyone else as mooks. Nobody is always one thing in all situations -- or even different parts of the same situation -- that was just my quick-sort. May have to structure that model a bit more carefully before I go flying into discussions like this one again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, hadn&#8217;t researched gamma males &#8212; I was using them in the romance contest. Which makes no sense because I wasn&#8217;t using the romance definition of alpha. So consistent I&#8217;m not. In my own lexicon of male categoris in the broadest sense, it was alphas as top dogs, betas as wanna be alphas, gammas as not even interested in being part of the pack, and everyone else as mooks. Nobody is always one thing in all situations &#8212; or even different parts of the same situation &#8212; that was just my quick-sort. May have to structure that model a bit more carefully before I go flying into discussions like this one again.</p>
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		<title>By: Francesca</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16898</link>
		<dc:creator>Francesca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16898</guid>
		<description>Okay, this gamma stuff has me very confused.  I googled &quot;gamma males&quot; and in most of the scientific data it says they come somewhere on the chain between the beta male and the omega male. Also they tend to be juveniles or mimic juveniles.  That is NOT my idea of a hot hero.

I like Alpha males and I think an Alpha can be either dominant or domineering.  Dominant is the strong man who would die for his mate and children, while a domineering one is abusive.  Alpha does not equal a** in my book.

To answer the questions...

1.  I like a big hero...big everywhere is very good. :grin:  Muscled is nice.

2. I adored Zarek in Dance with the Devil by Sherrilyn Kenyon.  He literally had been tortured as a slave and still saw himself as that deformed and unlovable boy.  He didn&#039;t really care anymore, or so he said.  Of course he really DID care and that&#039;s why I loved him. Another one is the movie version of Aragorn.  Aragorn is an alpha male and I LOVED him.  Not only does he hunt orcs, he&#039;s willing to die for friends, and when he sees his love there are tears in his eyes and a huge smacker of a kiss for her. sigh.... 

3/4.  A book has to have a hero I can fall in love with or I&#039;m outta there.  Now, the heroine has to match him, but I really prefer stories that are the hero&#039;s stories.  I like getting some of the book from his POV. When I write,I prefer the hero&#039;s perspective,too.  I tend to go back and forth from hero to heroine - not head hopping, but giving them a scene or a chapter to express themselves.

5. I love high sexual tension at the initial meeting between the H/H and lusty sex scenes.

6. What I love about an alpha hero is that he will sacrifice for others. He is comfortable as a leader but will act as a partner for his lover.  I see the alpha male as a protector - the ultimate knight in shining armor.

What I hate is if he is condescending and doesn&#039;t respect the heroine.  Also, I loathe heroes (alpha, beta, gamma whatever!) that take a woman for granted most of the way through the book and when she finally develops the backbone to leave he chases after her because he &quot;realizes&quot; he loves her.  

Cool topic for the day.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, this gamma stuff has me very confused.  I googled &#8220;gamma males&#8221; and in most of the scientific data it says they come somewhere on the chain between the beta male and the omega male. Also they tend to be juveniles or mimic juveniles.  That is NOT my idea of a hot hero.</p>
<p>I like Alpha males and I think an Alpha can be either dominant or domineering.  Dominant is the strong man who would die for his mate and children, while a domineering one is abusive.  Alpha does not equal a** in my book.</p>
<p>To answer the questions&#8230;</p>
<p>1.  I like a big hero&#8230;big everywhere is very good. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':grin:' class='wp-smiley' />   Muscled is nice.</p>
<p>2. I adored Zarek in Dance with the Devil by Sherrilyn Kenyon.  He literally had been tortured as a slave and still saw himself as that deformed and unlovable boy.  He didn&#8217;t really care anymore, or so he said.  Of course he really DID care and that&#8217;s why I loved him. Another one is the movie version of Aragorn.  Aragorn is an alpha male and I LOVED him.  Not only does he hunt orcs, he&#8217;s willing to die for friends, and when he sees his love there are tears in his eyes and a huge smacker of a kiss for her. sigh&#8230;. </p>
<p>3/4.  A book has to have a hero I can fall in love with or I&#8217;m outta there.  Now, the heroine has to match him, but I really prefer stories that are the hero&#8217;s stories.  I like getting some of the book from his POV. When I write,I prefer the hero&#8217;s perspective,too.  I tend to go back and forth from hero to heroine &#8211; not head hopping, but giving them a scene or a chapter to express themselves.</p>
<p>5. I love high sexual tension at the initial meeting between the H/H and lusty sex scenes.</p>
<p>6. What I love about an alpha hero is that he will sacrifice for others. He is comfortable as a leader but will act as a partner for his lover.  I see the alpha male as a protector &#8211; the ultimate knight in shining armor.</p>
<p>What I hate is if he is condescending and doesn&#8217;t respect the heroine.  Also, I loathe heroes (alpha, beta, gamma whatever!) that take a woman for granted most of the way through the book and when she finally develops the backbone to leave he chases after her because he &#8220;realizes&#8221; he loves her.  </p>
<p>Cool topic for the day.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: KeVin Killiany</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16897</link>
		<dc:creator>KeVin Killiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16897</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;OK, this going a bit farther off, but I was just thinking of the leather versus lace cliché. There are people in the world who genuinely just like one or the other - assuming that leather represents traits of power and confidence and sex and such, while lace represents inner strength, humility, kindness, and the like.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;
All leather makes me think of is what a stupid idea taking an &quot;Easy Rider&quot; inspired cross-country road trip when I&#039;d only been riding a month was. And rashes in really annoying places.

My wife Valerie has leather jackets and leather shoes and leather bucket seats in her Acura. But when it comes to sexy .... Well, she &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; drive me wild in sackcloth and ashes, but what I really prefer is a camisole and tap pants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>OK, this going a bit farther off, but I was just thinking of the leather versus lace cliché. There are people in the world who genuinely just like one or the other &#8211; assuming that leather represents traits of power and confidence and sex and such, while lace represents inner strength, humility, kindness, and the like.</i>&#8221;<br />
All leather makes me think of is what a stupid idea taking an &#8220;Easy Rider&#8221; inspired cross-country road trip when I&#8217;d only been riding a month was. And rashes in really annoying places.</p>
<p>My wife Valerie has leather jackets and leather shoes and leather bucket seats in her Acura. But when it comes to sexy &#8230;. Well, she <i>could</i> drive me wild in sackcloth and ashes, but what I really prefer is a camisole and tap pants.</p>
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		<title>By: SandyC</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16896</link>
		<dc:creator>SandyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16896</guid>
		<description>I love Alpha characters!  They&#039;re so strong they just leap off the page!  Well, they do if they&#039;re written correctly. I like the ones who are supposedly Alpha characters, but then we see them cry or otherwise break down emotionally, especially if they do so with the heroine because of the &quot;safety&quot; factor.  I don&#039;t have any favorite heroes in particular; it&#039;s more the way a story does or doesn&#039;t work for me.  I like having the hero&#039;s point of view, so we can get a glimpse inside his head - even if he only wants the heroine for sex at first.  I can get into the other types of heroes, too, but my keeper shelf is filled with Alpha books. :grin:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Alpha characters!  They&#8217;re so strong they just leap off the page!  Well, they do if they&#8217;re written correctly. I like the ones who are supposedly Alpha characters, but then we see them cry or otherwise break down emotionally, especially if they do so with the heroine because of the &#8220;safety&#8221; factor.  I don&#8217;t have any favorite heroes in particular; it&#8217;s more the way a story does or doesn&#8217;t work for me.  I like having the hero&#8217;s point of view, so we can get a glimpse inside his head &#8211; even if he only wants the heroine for sex at first.  I can get into the other types of heroes, too, but my keeper shelf is filled with Alpha books. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':grin:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Patrice Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-2/#comment-16895</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrice Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16895</guid>
		<description>I love this topic! Thanks for bringing it up, Sarah.

1. I don&#039;t like a Conan-sized hero, but definitely one that&#039;s well-muscled. :)

I LOVE, LOVE reading the alpha male. Johanna Lindsay hooked me with her alpha males when I was a teen. I think what makes the alpha hero so appealing is the intensity with which he feels, expresses himself and in general lives his life.

I write my own heroes as men who would fight like a junk yard dog to defend their friends and family...and most especially their woman.  Yes, they can be arrogant, pigheaded, tortured. They can have a jealous streak and need to be taken down a notch or two by the heroine at some point, but all those qualites make for the most loyal of characters and unshakable &lt;i&gt;loyality&lt;/i&gt; is a big part of my heroes&#039; personalites. 

They are the kind of men you can depend on no matter what...and yes, they&#039;ll fight their attraction to the heroine but in the end, they&#039;d do anything for her.  Because my heroes are very intense, I always pair them with strong-minded heroines who won&#039;t let these men walk all over them.

2. Alpha heroes who have a soft side when it comes to the heroine.

3. I read a book to &#039;be&#039; in the heroine&#039;s shoes. I don&#039;t read it for the heroine, but for the hero. The hero can make or break a book for me. I HAVE to love the hero.  Even if the heroine is not the type of person that I am, as long as she does the things she does with logic (ie, she&#039;s not a TSTL heroine), I&#039;m fine.

4. I love romances that give both the hero and the heroine&#039;s perspective. I LOVE writing from the hero&#039;s POV, so I include a goot bit of male POV, scenes with the hero and brothers/friends interacting. I try really hard to make sure I get the male voice as close as I can when writing my own books. Plus, it&#039;s just fun to &#039;hear&#039; his thoughts about the heroine when he&#039;s lustful, angry, frustrated...etc. LOL!

5. I really like showing both the hero and the heroine&#039;s perspective so I switch POV at least once a chapter. When it comes to love scenes, I&#039;ll switch POVs a bit more to give a better overall back and forth view from BOTH POVs to the readers.

6. I don&#039;t like alpha males that treat the heroine&#039;s with disrespect.  And if they do something dumb, then they&#039;d better be apologizing for it soon.  

But a well written alpha male...droool! I think it&#039;s because they are bigger than life characters and their intensity is almost physically tangible. Though I prefer a good balance of alpha and beta in the &#039;real world&#039;, in my reading and writing...give me an alpha hero and I&#039;m a happy camper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this topic! Thanks for bringing it up, Sarah.</p>
<p>1. I don&#8217;t like a Conan-sized hero, but definitely one that&#8217;s well-muscled. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I LOVE, LOVE reading the alpha male. Johanna Lindsay hooked me with her alpha males when I was a teen. I think what makes the alpha hero so appealing is the intensity with which he feels, expresses himself and in general lives his life.</p>
<p>I write my own heroes as men who would fight like a junk yard dog to defend their friends and family&#8230;and most especially their woman.  Yes, they can be arrogant, pigheaded, tortured. They can have a jealous streak and need to be taken down a notch or two by the heroine at some point, but all those qualites make for the most loyal of characters and unshakable <i>loyality</i> is a big part of my heroes&#8217; personalites. </p>
<p>They are the kind of men you can depend on no matter what&#8230;and yes, they&#8217;ll fight their attraction to the heroine but in the end, they&#8217;d do anything for her.  Because my heroes are very intense, I always pair them with strong-minded heroines who won&#8217;t let these men walk all over them.</p>
<p>2. Alpha heroes who have a soft side when it comes to the heroine.</p>
<p>3. I read a book to &#8216;be&#8217; in the heroine&#8217;s shoes. I don&#8217;t read it for the heroine, but for the hero. The hero can make or break a book for me. I HAVE to love the hero.  Even if the heroine is not the type of person that I am, as long as she does the things she does with logic (ie, she&#8217;s not a TSTL heroine), I&#8217;m fine.</p>
<p>4. I love romances that give both the hero and the heroine&#8217;s perspective. I LOVE writing from the hero&#8217;s POV, so I include a goot bit of male POV, scenes with the hero and brothers/friends interacting. I try really hard to make sure I get the male voice as close as I can when writing my own books. Plus, it&#8217;s just fun to &#8216;hear&#8217; his thoughts about the heroine when he&#8217;s lustful, angry, frustrated&#8230;etc. LOL!</p>
<p>5. I really like showing both the hero and the heroine&#8217;s perspective so I switch POV at least once a chapter. When it comes to love scenes, I&#8217;ll switch POVs a bit more to give a better overall back and forth view from BOTH POVs to the readers.</p>
<p>6. I don&#8217;t like alpha males that treat the heroine&#8217;s with disrespect.  And if they do something dumb, then they&#8217;d better be apologizing for it soon.  </p>
<p>But a well written alpha male&#8230;droool! I think it&#8217;s because they are bigger than life characters and their intensity is almost physically tangible. Though I prefer a good balance of alpha and beta in the &#8216;real world&#8217;, in my reading and writing&#8230;give me an alpha hero and I&#8217;m a happy camper.</p>
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		<title>By: Eva Gale</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-16894</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Gale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/04/17/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know-or-just-a-jerk/#comment-16894</guid>
		<description>Howard&#039;s Cry No More was a great Alpha that was a quiet one. Boy, that book had me bawling. He wasn&#039;t misogynistic in the least. At least not that I remember.</description>
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