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	<title>Comments on: A New Counter-Meme</title>
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	<description>What's hip, what's now, what's tomorrow in the romance genre world.</description>
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		<title>By: dustbury.com</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-14026</link>
		<dc:creator>dustbury.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-14026</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Harlequin Law&lt;/strong&gt;

Based on a theme by Mike Godwin, and in my experience at least as valid: As any discussion about literature grows longer, the probability of a comment disparaging romance novels (especially Harlequin romances) approaches one. By Diana Peterfreund, and ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Harlequin Law</strong></p>
<p>Based on a theme by Mike Godwin, and in my experience at least as valid: As any discussion about literature grows longer, the probability of a comment disparaging romance novels (especially Harlequin romances) approaches one. By Diana Peterfreund, and &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Edie</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-14012</link>
		<dc:creator>Edie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 00:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-14012</guid>
		<description>Diana,

The Romance Law is most often invoked when body parts start to throb. 

It goes something like this: a prim society girl notices electric shocks in her groin when a man she just met passes her at a crowded gallery opening. Two pages later, Ms. Future Junior Leaguer (who&#039;s never been tainted by so much as a french kiss) is doin&#039; the nasty with the guy in the elevator. 

Because she just can&#039;t help herself. 

Because he&#039;s her soulmate, y&#039;know.

And when I say, &quot;Ick,&quot; they say, &quot;Yeah, I know, but this is the kind of thing that is REQUIRED in the genre I write.&quot;

&quot;Erotica?&quot;

&quot;No, romance.&quot;

Really, I&#039;d rather read about sea cows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diana,</p>
<p>The Romance Law is most often invoked when body parts start to throb. </p>
<p>It goes something like this: a prim society girl notices electric shocks in her groin when a man she just met passes her at a crowded gallery opening. Two pages later, Ms. Future Junior Leaguer (who&#8217;s never been tainted by so much as a french kiss) is doin&#8217; the nasty with the guy in the elevator. </p>
<p>Because she just can&#8217;t help herself. </p>
<p>Because he&#8217;s her soulmate, y&#8217;know.</p>
<p>And when I say, &#8220;Ick,&#8221; they say, &#8220;Yeah, I know, but this is the kind of thing that is REQUIRED in the genre I write.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Erotica?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No, romance.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really, I&#8217;d rather read about sea cows.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Peterfreund</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13997</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Peterfreund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13997</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A Romance Writer will pen a short story or novel. She’ll ask for feedback and beg for brutal honesty. Yet when a non-Romance Writer uncovers a clunk in the plot or a disparity in characterization, the Romance Writer will claim: I HAD TO DO THAT OR IT’S NOT A ROMANCE.

End of discussion.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not familiar with that law, or at least, not as belonging strictly to writers of romance. I think any writer is capable of concocting wild defenses for things they don&#039;t want to change for any variety of reasons. 

What makes a romance to me is a story about two people falling in love. So I think that yeah, you have to do THAT or it&#039;s not a romance. But if the story doesn&#039;t do that and it&#039;s intended to be a romance, there&#039;s probably a bigger problem than a clunky plot or a weird characterization. :wink:

If one of my critique partners used that claptrap on me, regardless of genre, I&#039;d probably recuse myself from further critiquing of their work. If they say, &quot;No I like it and think it works fine,&quot; well, that&#039;s where author veto power comes in (and we&#039;ve all used our rubber stamp at some time or another) but it&#039;s a different argument.  

So yeah, I&#039;m totally for negating genre as a get out of jail free card.

At the same time, there should be a recognition of the standards of genre. So, for example, if the story is about  two marine biologists falling in love while rereleasing a wounded manatee into the wild and the reader is like,  hey, lets follow this manatee and maybe the evil boater who wounded him and wouldn&#039;t that make a much cuter story? Then the writer can say, well, I&#039;m focusing on the biologists because it&#039;s a romance -- but then the discussion should turn to how to make the love story more interesting so that the reader doesn&#039;t WISH the whole story was about a giant sea cow instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A Romance Writer will pen a short story or novel. She’ll ask for feedback and beg for brutal honesty. Yet when a non-Romance Writer uncovers a clunk in the plot or a disparity in characterization, the Romance Writer will claim: I HAD TO DO THAT OR IT’S NOT A ROMANCE.</p>
<p>End of discussion.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not familiar with that law, or at least, not as belonging strictly to writers of romance. I think any writer is capable of concocting wild defenses for things they don&#8217;t want to change for any variety of reasons. </p>
<p>What makes a romance to me is a story about two people falling in love. So I think that yeah, you have to do THAT or it&#8217;s not a romance. But if the story doesn&#8217;t do that and it&#8217;s intended to be a romance, there&#8217;s probably a bigger problem than a clunky plot or a weird characterization. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If one of my critique partners used that claptrap on me, regardless of genre, I&#8217;d probably recuse myself from further critiquing of their work. If they say, &#8220;No I like it and think it works fine,&#8221; well, that&#8217;s where author veto power comes in (and we&#8217;ve all used our rubber stamp at some time or another) but it&#8217;s a different argument.  </p>
<p>So yeah, I&#8217;m totally for negating genre as a get out of jail free card.</p>
<p>At the same time, there should be a recognition of the standards of genre. So, for example, if the story is about  two marine biologists falling in love while rereleasing a wounded manatee into the wild and the reader is like,  hey, lets follow this manatee and maybe the evil boater who wounded him and wouldn&#8217;t that make a much cuter story? Then the writer can say, well, I&#8217;m focusing on the biologists because it&#8217;s a romance &#8212; but then the discussion should turn to how to make the love story more interesting so that the reader doesn&#8217;t WISH the whole story was about a giant sea cow instead.</p>
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		<title>By: redwyne.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teh Shiny iz PASTEDE ON YAY!!1111!!</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13996</link>
		<dc:creator>redwyne.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teh Shiny iz PASTEDE ON YAY!!1111!!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13996</guid>
		<description>[...] **all icons are ones I use(d) for my livejournal&#8230; can you guess which ones were made just for me ;.. and for those wondering&#8230; the title is just me being a dork or I miss http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13952)**   Posted by Sybil &#124; Categories: Ponderings &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] **all icons are ones I use(d) for my livejournal&#8230; can you guess which ones were made just for me ;.. and for those wondering&#8230; the title is just me being a dork or I miss <a href="http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13952)" rel="nofollow">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13952)</a>**   Posted by Sybil | Categories: Ponderings | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Edie</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13992</link>
		<dc:creator>Edie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13992</guid>
		<description>Okay. I&#039;m sure a discussion about Harlequin&#039;s Law is so not the place to start this. And I admit, upfront, the last Harlequin I read all the way through probably WAS twenty years ago but I think I&#039;m in Suisan&#039;s camp when she says:

&quot;I don’t see it happening until there’s a whole lot less emotion and a whole lot more honest discussion about what works and what doesn’t.&quot;

I write stories that have a romantic element to them. A lot of my writer friends do too. We seem to fall into two groups, those who call themselves Romance Writers and those who don&#039;t. I&#039;m all for reading (and writing) whatever one enjoys but if we&#039;re talking about laws ... What about the Romance Law? 

Here&#039;s how it works:
A Romance Writer will pen a short story or novel. She&#039;ll ask for feedback and beg for brutal honesty. Yet when a non-Romance Writer uncovers a clunk in the plot or a disparity in characterization, the Romance Writer will claim:

I HAD TO DO THAT OR IT&#039;S NOT A ROMANCE.

End of discussion.

You get rid of THAT law and I&#039;ll support your Harlequin meme buster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay. I&#8217;m sure a discussion about Harlequin&#8217;s Law is so not the place to start this. And I admit, upfront, the last Harlequin I read all the way through probably WAS twenty years ago but I think I&#8217;m in Suisan&#8217;s camp when she says:</p>
<p>&#8220;I don’t see it happening until there’s a whole lot less emotion and a whole lot more honest discussion about what works and what doesn’t.&#8221;</p>
<p>I write stories that have a romantic element to them. A lot of my writer friends do too. We seem to fall into two groups, those who call themselves Romance Writers and those who don&#8217;t. I&#8217;m all for reading (and writing) whatever one enjoys but if we&#8217;re talking about laws &#8230; What about the Romance Law? </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s how it works:<br />
A Romance Writer will pen a short story or novel. She&#8217;ll ask for feedback and beg for brutal honesty. Yet when a non-Romance Writer uncovers a clunk in the plot or a disparity in characterization, the Romance Writer will claim:</p>
<p>I HAD TO DO THAT OR IT&#8217;S NOT A ROMANCE.</p>
<p>End of discussion.</p>
<p>You get rid of THAT law and I&#8217;ll support your Harlequin meme buster.</p>
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		<title>By: Cora</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13977</link>
		<dc:creator>Cora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 07:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13977</guid>
		<description>Whenever someone brings up Harlequin/Mills and Boon novels or chicklit as an example of all that is bad in writing, I usually ask him or her (though most of a time it&#039;s a him), &quot;Well, have you ever actually read any?&quot;

In 99 of 100 cases, the answer is &quot;No&quot;. The remaining one person read some ancient Harlequin romances at his grandma&#039;s house some twenty years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever someone brings up Harlequin/Mills and Boon novels or chicklit as an example of all that is bad in writing, I usually ask him or her (though most of a time it&#8217;s a him), &#8220;Well, have you ever actually read any?&#8221;</p>
<p>In 99 of 100 cases, the answer is &#8220;No&#8221;. The remaining one person read some ancient Harlequin romances at his grandma&#8217;s house some twenty years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13975</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 04:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13975</guid>
		<description>I thought all the GOOD Romance novels had Fabio on the cover...

How are we supposed to identify the good ones if they DON&#039;T put FABIO on the cover?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought all the GOOD Romance novels had Fabio on the cover&#8230;</p>
<p>How are we supposed to identify the good ones if they DON&#8217;T put FABIO on the cover?</p>
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		<title>By: Marianne McA</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13972</link>
		<dc:creator>Marianne McA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 21:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13972</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t think he writes two straight books, Michelle - though perhaps he used to. I&#039;m just bitter because this was a children&#039;s book year, and I don&#039;t like his YA fiction as much. If you count the extra stuff - like the Science of Discworld books, and the various diaries and maps (which I suppose I wasn&#039;t counting because I don&#039;t buy those) you&#039;re probably right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t think he writes two straight books, Michelle &#8211; though perhaps he used to. I&#8217;m just bitter because this was a children&#8217;s book year, and I don&#8217;t like his YA fiction as much. If you count the extra stuff &#8211; like the Science of Discworld books, and the various diaries and maps (which I suppose I wasn&#8217;t counting because I don&#8217;t buy those) you&#8217;re probably right.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Peterfreund</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13971</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Peterfreund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13971</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Some people really are only idiots.&lt;/i&gt;

True &#039;nuff. A few months ago, I&#039;d worked myself into a froth over something or other online and I shut my laptop in a huff and was all, &quot;Ugh, the people on the internet!&quot; And my fiance cracked up laughing and now we have a People on the Internet Law in our house.

Blood pressure&#039;s gone waaaaaay down. :lol:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Some people really are only idiots.</i></p>
<p>True &#8217;nuff. A few months ago, I&#8217;d worked myself into a froth over something or other online and I shut my laptop in a huff and was all, &#8220;Ugh, the people on the internet!&#8221; And my fiance cracked up laughing and now we have a People on the Internet Law in our house.</p>
<p>Blood pressure&#8217;s gone waaaaaay down. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sara Dennis</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-13970</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2007/01/05/a-new-counter-meme/#comment-13970</guid>
		<description>I have seen Godwin&#039;s Law work. Someone says blah blah blah just like the Nazis, gets a response of Godwin&#039;s Law, and the original Nazi-spewer stops, reconsiders, and comes at his argument from a different place. I can&#039;t give you ratios of works to doesn&#039;t work, but it doesn&#039;t always fuel the fire.

My hope would be that doing the same sort of thing with romance novels would work the same way, and save us some chest-beating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen Godwin&#8217;s Law work. Someone says blah blah blah just like the Nazis, gets a response of Godwin&#8217;s Law, and the original Nazi-spewer stops, reconsiders, and comes at his argument from a different place. I can&#8217;t give you ratios of works to doesn&#8217;t work, but it doesn&#8217;t always fuel the fire.</p>
<p>My hope would be that doing the same sort of thing with romance novels would work the same way, and save us some chest-beating.</p>
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