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	<title>Comments on: Margaret, meet Barbara</title>
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	<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/</link>
	<description>What's hip, what's now, what's tomorrow in the romance genre world.</description>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-2/#comment-3939</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3939</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m glad, though, that some of you who read the piece understand that a major concern for me is the passivity of certain heroines in romances. I do have a tendency to ramble and probably didn’t make that point strong enough.&quot;

I thought this point was crystal clear in your piece, LLB, and that you gave very lucid examples to illustrate the difference between &quot;active&quot; and &quot;passive&quot; actions on the part of heroines.  There was nothing in your piece, IMO, that spoke poorly of either SAHMs or WOHMs or working women without children or stay at home wives without children.  In fact, I think you went out of your way to explain that the source of your &quot;ire&quot; was most definitely the &quot;passivity&quot; of the heroine, NOT the choice she ultimately made.  And really, since so many women do work out of the home, and many of us have careers we love, with or without children (me included), if we&#039;re reading Romance, we&#039;re reading about a lot of heroines who don&#039;t have high powered careers or live in the big city or even want to work or whatever.  Many of us are even reading about those heroines and respecting their choices even though they&#039;re not the choices we might make in our own lives. At some level, what you&#039;re responding angrily to, IMO, is a matter of craftmanship, of shallow character development rather than the thoughtful development of the heroine&#039;s feelings and thoughts and choices.  At another level, you&#039;re talking about ideology, and about feminism as the ability of women to make active choices regardless of the choice made.  I&#039;m assuming from your argument that if you reversed this heroine&#039;s circumstances, and she blindly immersed herself in a professional career because her man told her to, you&#039;d be looking for an equally hard wall against which to throw the book.  

To Jennifer L. -- I admire your restraint and did not find anything offensive to SAHMs in your posts or anyone else&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m glad, though, that some of you who read the piece understand that a major concern for me is the passivity of certain heroines in romances. I do have a tendency to ramble and probably didn’t make that point strong enough.&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought this point was crystal clear in your piece, LLB, and that you gave very lucid examples to illustrate the difference between &#8220;active&#8221; and &#8220;passive&#8221; actions on the part of heroines.  There was nothing in your piece, IMO, that spoke poorly of either SAHMs or WOHMs or working women without children or stay at home wives without children.  In fact, I think you went out of your way to explain that the source of your &#8220;ire&#8221; was most definitely the &#8220;passivity&#8221; of the heroine, NOT the choice she ultimately made.  And really, since so many women do work out of the home, and many of us have careers we love, with or without children (me included), if we&#8217;re reading Romance, we&#8217;re reading about a lot of heroines who don&#8217;t have high powered careers or live in the big city or even want to work or whatever.  Many of us are even reading about those heroines and respecting their choices even though they&#8217;re not the choices we might make in our own lives. At some level, what you&#8217;re responding angrily to, IMO, is a matter of craftmanship, of shallow character development rather than the thoughtful development of the heroine&#8217;s feelings and thoughts and choices.  At another level, you&#8217;re talking about ideology, and about feminism as the ability of women to make active choices regardless of the choice made.  I&#8217;m assuming from your argument that if you reversed this heroine&#8217;s circumstances, and she blindly immersed herself in a professional career because her man told her to, you&#8217;d be looking for an equally hard wall against which to throw the book.  </p>
<p>To Jennifer L. &#8212; I admire your restraint and did not find anything offensive to SAHMs in your posts or anyone else&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan K</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3938</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3938</guid>
		<description>My take on this issue is that the problem with romance novels, as LLB says, is that the heroine too often simply throws over her old life/dreams/whatever with nary a thought, discussion, or explanation just to be with the hero, whereas ideally you&#039;d expect some soul searching and conversations.  I remember reading an historical romance where the catalyst for the heroine&#039;s actions was her search for her brother.  In the end she finds him, but he&#039;s a drug addict and runs away again.  She shrugs her shoulder and the brother isn&#039;t mentioned again.  You&#039;d have thought she&#039;d be sad or confused, even if she realized she couldn&#039;t save him herself and needed to move on with her life.  The situation was somewhat different than in LLB&#039;s example, but I mention it to show that authors need to make these things more than mere window dressing, or else the heroines come off as somewhat shallow.

As for the stay-at-home versus work, I think everyone has to make the decision that works for them and their families. There is no one-size-fits-all solution, and I mistrust people who say there is.  If I look at my own kids, for example, the middle one would have happily stayed home till pushed out the door to attend college, while the youngest is extremely social.  Being home with us or with his beloved nanny worked for the middle one, but the youngest wasn&#039;t happy until he went to nursery school.  Having seen such variety within my own family, I certainly can&#039;t tell anyone else that they must do things a specific way because I know that what works for one family and one child doesn&#039;t necessarily work for anyone else.  All I can say is I&#039;ve been happy, frustrated, exhausted, challenged, and fulfilled playing numerous roles in my life, but it&#039;s my life and mileage may certainly vary for others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My take on this issue is that the problem with romance novels, as LLB says, is that the heroine too often simply throws over her old life/dreams/whatever with nary a thought, discussion, or explanation just to be with the hero, whereas ideally you&#8217;d expect some soul searching and conversations.  I remember reading an historical romance where the catalyst for the heroine&#8217;s actions was her search for her brother.  In the end she finds him, but he&#8217;s a drug addict and runs away again.  She shrugs her shoulder and the brother isn&#8217;t mentioned again.  You&#8217;d have thought she&#8217;d be sad or confused, even if she realized she couldn&#8217;t save him herself and needed to move on with her life.  The situation was somewhat different than in LLB&#8217;s example, but I mention it to show that authors need to make these things more than mere window dressing, or else the heroines come off as somewhat shallow.</p>
<p>As for the stay-at-home versus work, I think everyone has to make the decision that works for them and their families. There is no one-size-fits-all solution, and I mistrust people who say there is.  If I look at my own kids, for example, the middle one would have happily stayed home till pushed out the door to attend college, while the youngest is extremely social.  Being home with us or with his beloved nanny worked for the middle one, but the youngest wasn&#8217;t happy until he went to nursery school.  Having seen such variety within my own family, I certainly can&#8217;t tell anyone else that they must do things a specific way because I know that what works for one family and one child doesn&#8217;t necessarily work for anyone else.  All I can say is I&#8217;ve been happy, frustrated, exhausted, challenged, and fulfilled playing numerous roles in my life, but it&#8217;s my life and mileage may certainly vary for others.</p>
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		<title>By: Daria</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3932</link>
		<dc:creator>Daria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3932</guid>
		<description>:) I&#039;ve spent my life in municipal apartments with three *rooms* -- not three *bedrooms* -- I don&#039;t care for the big space or houses. A tiny studio apartment would do just fine!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;ve spent my life in municipal apartments with three *rooms* &#8212; not three *bedrooms* &#8212; I don&#8217;t care for the big space or houses. A tiny studio apartment would do just fine!</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3931</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3931</guid>
		<description>lol. He is, but this is California, where a 3 bedroom tract home on a tiny lot costs a million dollars, even a 100K doesn&#039;t go very far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol. He is, but this is California, where a 3 bedroom tract home on a tiny lot costs a million dollars, even a 100K doesn&#8217;t go very far.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3930</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3930</guid>
		<description>lol. He is, but this is California, not the midwest. Six figures is barely middle class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol. He is, but this is California, not the midwest. Six figures is barely middle class.</p>
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		<title>By: Daria</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3929</link>
		<dc:creator>Daria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3929</guid>
		<description>Six figure paycheck? He must be one hell of a man :mrgreen:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Six figure paycheck? He must be one hell of a man <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif' alt=':mrgreen:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3928</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3928</guid>
		<description>Walking away from a career to raise a family isn&#039;t uncommon in the 27-35 range. We don&#039;t want to &quot;have it all&quot; or be Superwoman. We&#039;ve learned that &quot;having it all&quot; really means you don&#039;t have much of anything. I went to an Ivy League school, graduated with honors, had the six figure paycheck by 25 and the dream career. By 29, I was tired of only seeing my husband when we were asleep. I spent a good chunk of my paycheck to pay people to clean my house, cook my food, walk my dog, and basically live my life so I could have that career. The next step would have been paying someone to raise my children and sleep with my husband and that was just too much for me, so I quit. Now, my family is my life. 

In my neighborhood, there are a dozen women with similar educational and career backgrounds who gave up their careers to stay at home or work part-time. And all of us are headed toward our 5 and 10 year anniversaries without a single divorce in the group. Four of my career friends are already divorced and more are headed that way. Just like our mothers. 

We thank the feminists of our mother&#039;s generation for giving us that choice, but they need to remember that career freedom is a choice we can choose not to exercise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walking away from a career to raise a family isn&#8217;t uncommon in the 27-35 range. We don&#8217;t want to &#8220;have it all&#8221; or be Superwoman. We&#8217;ve learned that &#8220;having it all&#8221; really means you don&#8217;t have much of anything. I went to an Ivy League school, graduated with honors, had the six figure paycheck by 25 and the dream career. By 29, I was tired of only seeing my husband when we were asleep. I spent a good chunk of my paycheck to pay people to clean my house, cook my food, walk my dog, and basically live my life so I could have that career. The next step would have been paying someone to raise my children and sleep with my husband and that was just too much for me, so I quit. Now, my family is my life. </p>
<p>In my neighborhood, there are a dozen women with similar educational and career backgrounds who gave up their careers to stay at home or work part-time. And all of us are headed toward our 5 and 10 year anniversaries without a single divorce in the group. Four of my career friends are already divorced and more are headed that way. Just like our mothers. </p>
<p>We thank the feminists of our mother&#8217;s generation for giving us that choice, but they need to remember that career freedom is a choice we can choose not to exercise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer R</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3927</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3927</guid>
		<description>Honestly, you know what gives me the heebie-jeebies about SAHM&#039;ing? That you&#039;re putting all of your eggs into one basket. You&#039;re handing that basket to your husband, trusting him to 100% take care of you financially, without doing anything to protect your own ass in the event that he suddenly leaves you or dies. The idea of going without any kind of employment for a few years to SAHM and then having to jobhunt worries me. 

(And my cousin just lost her husband and is now massively financially screwed because he wanted to take care of her, so this is kind of a sensitive topic right now for me.)

If you have a job where you can get paid and still stay at home, that&#039;s great. That doesn&#039;t worry me. But I just do not have that level of trust in anyone or fate to be all warm and comfy at the idea of someone staying home with the kids for years without having anything other than &quot;domestic engineer&quot; to claim for that time. It just makes me nervous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, you know what gives me the heebie-jeebies about SAHM&#8217;ing? That you&#8217;re putting all of your eggs into one basket. You&#8217;re handing that basket to your husband, trusting him to 100% take care of you financially, without doing anything to protect your own ass in the event that he suddenly leaves you or dies. The idea of going without any kind of employment for a few years to SAHM and then having to jobhunt worries me. </p>
<p>(And my cousin just lost her husband and is now massively financially screwed because he wanted to take care of her, so this is kind of a sensitive topic right now for me.)</p>
<p>If you have a job where you can get paid and still stay at home, that&#8217;s great. That doesn&#8217;t worry me. But I just do not have that level of trust in anyone or fate to be all warm and comfy at the idea of someone staying home with the kids for years without having anything other than &#8220;domestic engineer&#8221; to claim for that time. It just makes me nervous.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen O'Reilly</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3925</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen O'Reilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3925</guid>
		<description>Choice leads to confusion?  I suppose, but I&#039;m sure a lot of feminists are rolling over in their burned-out bras.... :wink:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Choice leads to confusion?  I suppose, but I&#8217;m sure a lot of feminists are rolling over in their burned-out bras&#8230;. <img src='http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: LLB</title>
		<link>http://www.romancingtheblog.com/blog/2005/06/28/margaret-meet-barbara/comment-page-1/#comment-3920</link>
		<dc:creator>LLB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=236#comment-3920</guid>
		<description>Kathleen -

I read that as well.  IMHO it fits in w/the Chick Lit lifestyles of a segment of young women these days.  When I read the piece all I could think of was The Devil Wears Prada.

TTFN, LLB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathleen -</p>
<p>I read that as well.  IMHO it fits in w/the Chick Lit lifestyles of a segment of young women these days.  When I read the piece all I could think of was The Devil Wears Prada.</p>
<p>TTFN, LLB</p>
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